Lone_Gunman
Member
That's fine, but they shouldnt bitch about supply problems, the Obamapanic, or any anti-gun legislation that he might sign.
Has any ammo manufacturers announced plans to increase production?
- Thread starter damien
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That's fine, but they shouldnt bitch about supply problems, the Obamapanic, or any anti-gun legislation that he might sign.
MatthewVanitas
Member
And anyone who voted for Bush should have refrained from any criticism of the handling of the Iraq War, the War on Drugs, and any other issue tangentially tied to Bush's administration? "Oh well, I can't complain about any civil rights violations, I did vote for the guy after all..."
I'm not saying people shouldn't be concerned about Obama, Biden, and especially Holder's stances. However, blaming people for ammo shortages when they voted for Obama based on improving renewable energy research or improving the US's human rights record is really counter-productive. It just drives pro-gun Democrats out of the pro-gun camp. The pro-gun Libertarians could make a ton of similar complaints about Bush, but there's no point picking a fight between Libertarian gun owners and Republican gun owners when there are plenty of anti-gun enemies to confront.
Lone_Gunman
Member
You are right, it is counterproductive. Nevertheless, these are the people who are responsible for the ammo shortages.
chuckusaret
member
A person that is pro gun and voted for Obamanation has no excuse. Obamanation was known to be anti gun long before he ran for president and they got what they voted for. A rookie president that is all talk and a flip flopper. Obamanation can not blame bush for his present failed attempts that have driven the stock market down from 13,000 in Feb.09 to less than 7,000 today. God! we are really going to be in deep trouble come summer. Thats when the civil unrest starts.
Guns and more
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Nobody's going to build a new factory for what is a temporary shortage. Run at full capacity, sure.
Once everyone has their 2K rounds, we'll be able to buy again.
Once everyone has their 2K rounds, we'll be able to buy again.
ThomasT
Member
I think this is a temporary thing myself. Remember how many AR threads there were just a few weeks ago? Like what is the best AR, where can I get an AR, when will they be making more ARs, why don't all the manufacturers ramp up production and make more ARs? The last GS I went to had ARs all over the place none seem to be selling. Lots of privately owned ARs walking around and no takers.
Remember? And now you don't see that anymore for one reason. Everyone that wanted an AR got one. And now its the same with ammo and componants. As soon as everyone gets a supply the demand will drop. And it will drop.
Maybe if we all quit buying ammo and componants like we quit buying gas last summer the price would fall and the stuff would be everywhere. I doubt that will happen though.
Remember? And now you don't see that anymore for one reason. Everyone that wanted an AR got one. And now its the same with ammo and componants. As soon as everyone gets a supply the demand will drop. And it will drop.
Maybe if we all quit buying ammo and componants like we quit buying gas last summer the price would fall and the stuff would be everywhere. I doubt that will happen though.
chuckusaret
member
Correct. I said this a few months back. The attendance at the guns shows, here anyway, seems to have dropped to the attendance of prior years. People, for the majority, are now waiting for the make and model gun they want and not buying just anything off the shelf. Thats me waiting for the Browning B25 12 ga shotgun to come down in price.
WinchesterAA
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Maybe ya'll should do it the way I do..
I make about a grand a week, and I spend about 100$ a week on ammo, or roughly 2 boxes of .270, and a box or two of 45ACP. Every week, for the last 6 months+
Didn't spend a large $$ amount upfront, and I have a pretty heavy pile of ammo. Good ammo, too. Not wolf, not S&B, etc etc, but some good factory ammo.
Winchester supreme for the .270, buffalo bore and WWB for the .45ACP. I still have a case of wolf steel cased FMJ but that stuff is a little lacking in consistency, plus I can't reload with the steel cases so there's not much incentive to buy it with it being +/- the price of everything else.
I make about a grand a week, and I spend about 100$ a week on ammo, or roughly 2 boxes of .270, and a box or two of 45ACP. Every week, for the last 6 months+
Didn't spend a large $$ amount upfront, and I have a pretty heavy pile of ammo. Good ammo, too. Not wolf, not S&B, etc etc, but some good factory ammo.
Winchester supreme for the .270, buffalo bore and WWB for the .45ACP. I still have a case of wolf steel cased FMJ but that stuff is a little lacking in consistency, plus I can't reload with the steel cases so there's not much incentive to buy it with it being +/- the price of everything else.
MathewVanitas: Hey now, slow down there. I didn't intend to attack anyone nor do I think that I did attack anyone. I expressed curiosity as to the number of firearm owners who cast a vote for our current president and now are in a panic worrying about changes that he might make.
I don't see the issue as a cultural thing. I see it as a freedom thing. I'm a single issue voter. I vote against those who may potentially pose limits I my freedom. I vote for those who respect my freedom and God given constitutional rights.
Hook'em Horns!
I don't see the issue as a cultural thing. I see it as a freedom thing. I'm a single issue voter. I vote against those who may potentially pose limits I my freedom. I vote for those who respect my freedom and God given constitutional rights.
Hook'em Horns!
MatthewVanitas
Member
@medmo:
Oh, nothing personal at all, and not directed at you, but there are plenty of other folks really heaping it on though. Again, I didn't vote for Obama, but I do think that saying "if you don't vote for McCain you're commie scum" is not the best way to support the gun community. There's a lot of strong emotions on presidential issues these days, and I'm just saying it's best to keep the issues on the issues and not let them spill over.
I just consider blaming ammo shortage directly on Obama rather silly. Among many, many other issues, we could easily have had Dem majorities in House and Senate under McCain, and I have zero confidence that McCain would've vetoed any anti-gun measures. Rather than drawing R/D lines, I think it's better that we address any gun issues coming from Obama as Obama issues, any gun issues coming from Holder as Holder issues, and any gun issues from House/Senate folks as their issues. So far the only one to really speak up is Holder, and House Dems smacked him back down.
In any case, I consider the ammo/EBR shortages to just be a natural shift in the market, and to be stirred up by forums and talk radio. I'm not necessarily upset about it, but I think it's rather silly. And the sad thing about it is that there are tons of folks who'll by a bunch of lowers and cases of ammo, yet don't bother to contact their elected reps to express their opinion, or even vote.
Oh, nothing personal at all, and not directed at you, but there are plenty of other folks really heaping it on though. Again, I didn't vote for Obama, but I do think that saying "if you don't vote for McCain you're commie scum" is not the best way to support the gun community. There's a lot of strong emotions on presidential issues these days, and I'm just saying it's best to keep the issues on the issues and not let them spill over.
I just consider blaming ammo shortage directly on Obama rather silly. Among many, many other issues, we could easily have had Dem majorities in House and Senate under McCain, and I have zero confidence that McCain would've vetoed any anti-gun measures. Rather than drawing R/D lines, I think it's better that we address any gun issues coming from Obama as Obama issues, any gun issues coming from Holder as Holder issues, and any gun issues from House/Senate folks as their issues. So far the only one to really speak up is Holder, and House Dems smacked him back down.
In any case, I consider the ammo/EBR shortages to just be a natural shift in the market, and to be stirred up by forums and talk radio. I'm not necessarily upset about it, but I think it's rather silly. And the sad thing about it is that there are tons of folks who'll by a bunch of lowers and cases of ammo, yet don't bother to contact their elected reps to express their opinion, or even vote.
Trifler
Member
MatthewVanitas said:
Hear hear! I agree completely.
manfromyard
Member
No-one in this thread even mentioned this until you said something. The stock market was overvalued for quite some time due to the debt cycle and over leveraging. Returning to reasonable levels of course meant that the stock market would drop. All this has nothing to do with gun information anyway.
I'm sure they are all trying to increase production. But the demand is astronomical between the private front and the War on Terror(tm). It's a shame to because it makes it harder for not just me to get ammo but getting some to introduce new people to firearms is also more difficult. Now's not really a great time to get into guns for a beginner.
Poper
Member
Bingo.
The folks that think Winchester, Remington or Black Hills just needs to buy another machine, plug it in and fill'er up with components don't understand how industry works in the good ole USA.
1) These companies don't have code compliant space sitting empty just waiting for as reason to add another production line.
2) Design of another facility will take 4-6 months
3) Permitting another 1-2 months
4) Construction about 1 year
5) Installation of the production equipment another 2 to 3 months
So all in all, you are looking at nearly 2 years to get another facility up and running (if you're lucky - don't forget about the NIMBYs) for a probably short term shortage. Assuming, of course, that they can obtain enough raw materials to run the plant.
Why in the world would any company CEO stick his neck out by sinking $10M to $20M into a new production facility in the middle of a recession unless he can show his board a long term profitable operation?
They are producing everything they can with what they have. Between the military contracts and the civilian hoarding, we are going to be a little short until the panic subsides, so relax and don't take it personal.
Just my two cents.
Poper
Jeff F
Member
From what I hear most of the US manufactures are making it 24/7 and at maximum capacity. Only way for them to make more would be to expand operations.
22-rimfire
Member
If you think this shortage is bad, if there is ever an EM event, you will see what a shortage really is when it comes to electrical transformers and the ability to build new ones quickly. We're talking years to replace the existing transformers.
Oh sure, it is a little hard to buy ammo in general right now, but I in gneral have had no problem buying what I feel I need. I also don't shoot a 1,000 rounds a week or rarely in one month. I've gone years an not shot 1,000 rounds total.
Oh sure, it is a little hard to buy ammo in general right now, but I in gneral have had no problem buying what I feel I need. I also don't shoot a 1,000 rounds a week or rarely in one month. I've gone years an not shot 1,000 rounds total.
Mellow out folks...please
I've been around long enough to remember the primer shortage back when Clinton took office. You couldn't buy a rifle or pistol primer anywhere in the US for months until the frenzy settled. All because some senator mentioned banning them so some of the reloaders started hoarding them, prices soared, and everyone that reloaded suffered. Same is happening now. I can't even buy bulk .22 ammo at my local Wal-Mart, not to mention anything else. So my son and I can't even shoot on the weekends because there are a bunch of hoarders out there that most likely don't even shoot 100 rounds a year buying all this stuff up and now the real shooters are suffering. Well all I can say is if you hoarders out there continue this behavior we all loose and OBAMA WINS. He has already scared the Sh$!t out of most of you. Of you hoarders, how many of you are NRA members? That would be money better spent in my eyes.
Suffolk45
I've been around long enough to remember the primer shortage back when Clinton took office. You couldn't buy a rifle or pistol primer anywhere in the US for months until the frenzy settled. All because some senator mentioned banning them so some of the reloaders started hoarding them, prices soared, and everyone that reloaded suffered. Same is happening now. I can't even buy bulk .22 ammo at my local Wal-Mart, not to mention anything else. So my son and I can't even shoot on the weekends because there are a bunch of hoarders out there that most likely don't even shoot 100 rounds a year buying all this stuff up and now the real shooters are suffering. Well all I can say is if you hoarders out there continue this behavior we all loose and OBAMA WINS. He has already scared the Sh$!t out of most of you. Of you hoarders, how many of you are NRA members? That would be money better spent in my eyes.
Suffolk45
MAURICE
Member
I have found that 9mm and .45 is hard to find, but I have had not trouble finding 7mm mag or .357 sig which is good for me. 
I even found 15 round value packs of Remington Express 12 ga 00 buck at a Wally World last weekend. Bough a couple of boxes and left the rest on the shelf. More for other people to buy. I haven't changed the way I buy ammo since all this started. Whenever I am at Wal-Mart I buy a box of one of the calibers I shoot and it goes into the footlocker I store it all in. No panicking here, it'll end soon enough.
I even found 15 round value packs of Remington Express 12 ga 00 buck at a Wally World last weekend. Bough a couple of boxes and left the rest on the shelf. More for other people to buy. I haven't changed the way I buy ammo since all this started. Whenever I am at Wal-Mart I buy a box of one of the calibers I shoot and it goes into the footlocker I store it all in. No panicking here, it'll end soon enough.
Amen Maurice!
Same here. I haven't changed my buying habits either. I just buy as needed. I buy enough so I have brass to reload. If we all did this, there wouldn't be this insane frenzy out there hurting all of us real shooters.
suffolk45
Same here. I haven't changed my buying habits either. I just buy as needed. I buy enough so I have brass to reload. If we all did this, there wouldn't be this insane frenzy out there hurting all of us real shooters.
suffolk45
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