what gives?

Bears may have gotten fatter-- but it seems that many think rounds that used to be good enough are thought to be too small-- I mean I grew up hunting deer with either a 30-30 or a .35 Remington and I always hunted dove with a .410..The last time I went out to sight in, it seemed averyone had .300 Win Mags or larger for Texas whitetail, and I rarely have gone dove hunting now with guys who don't take a 12 Ga--- I guess doves and deer eat genetic super corn or something now...

I think it is just to sell more guns and ammo to feed the guns...IMHO

I dont really know what their true intent is but it will never hurt Remington to sell more guns.

In the last 15 or so years there has been a steady trend to overgun and overscope oneself. I have heard Craig Boddington on TV say you need a 300 WinMag to take mule deer. Sheesh. A 6.5x55 has always been just chipper for me. You also need the 4-16 power scope. The 2-7 or fixed 4 or 6 power has been fine by me.

At the same time hunting shows talk about how 400 yd shots are common and quite easy to make on moving game making one believe they may need a larger more long range type cartridge.

It is a combination of marketing hype and consumers who dont do any of their own research but leave it to the so called experts who always have an agenda of their own.

The game must be wearing body armor, probably supplied by Federal wildlife grants.

Half naked barefoot Indians used home made bows and arrows to kill everthing from bunnies to buffalo. But 200 years later, we need Magnums. We modern hunters are sooooo macho.

Animals are tougher these days. It is a combination of diet and exercise. Some believe the critters may actually be on the juice.

Your gun is as effective now as it was when you got it. Don't believe the modern hype...much of it is sales pitch.

I guess doves and deer eat genetic super corn or something now..

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It's the contrails man, IT'S ALL A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY!!!111!!!

tju1973 said:

Bears may have gotten fatter-- but it seems that many think rounds that used to be good enough are thought to be too small-- I mean I grew up hunting deer with either a 30-30 or a .35 Remington and I always hunted dove with a .410..The last time I went out to sight in, it seemed averyone had .300 Win Mags or larger for Texas whitetail, and I rarely have gone dove hunting now with guys who don't take a 12 Ga--- I guess doves and deer eat genetic super corn or something now...

I think it is just to sell more guns and ammo to feed the guns...IMHO

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I agree with you on the use of the 30/30 & the 35 remington being enough to do the job properly on bear & deer. My dad & I spent enough time in the field together using both & were satisfied with the result. We never did spend to much time exploring the heavier artillary that was coming out.
......just keep your powder dry.

Mooose, I do not know much about the 300WM, can not say why Remington says what it says and think there is a more power is better thang going on.

Personally, if I were to hunt REALLY BIG bears in AK I would go with something bigger and as fast as the 300WM. But, for virtually everything else from Moooose on down, a 200g NP starting at 2900fps is huge power out to 150yds and still big numbers out to 300yds.

I personally am happy with the cartridge/power selection from the 1950's and 1960's. Many wonderful calibers.

Best Regards to all. Lj

Animals are bigger and badder now! Last deer my Grandfather on my mother's side killed was a tiny 12x13(smallest he ever took was 6x6) in the Oregon Cascades...heh,thats nothing compared to the HUDGE 3x3 I got a couple of years back!!! Oh yah and there are more of them and they think strategically to trap and kill us!!

Savy hunters took thousands of elephant with 7x57,9.3x62,.270Win.,.308 FALs,etc...The .375 HH in it's original load that was touted as one of the killing rounds is easily eclipesed by some modern .45-70 loads...Yet today if your not hunting with some Ubbergobangloudenboomer that throws a small car threw the air you are HORRIBLY undergunned!

I am a big fan of large meplates and more often than not a bit more power but I am also a HUDGE fan of shot placement and know full well that nearly ALL the time I use more than needed.

Body armor...totaly! They use it! I've seen them!

Sure, a .300 WinMag is plenty good for anything in North America. Kill anything.

Trouble is, you get past "kill" and get into "stop", which applies to the Alaska big bears. Shoot one with the .300 and it will assuredly die, but not necessarily before it does some sort of cosmetic surgery on YOU.

A lot of these flatter-shooting cartridges, aside from homo sap's basic need for continual "bigger and better", are helpful for city folks who want to hunt. Look at the demographics of the US, from 1940 to nowadays. Far, far fewer folks are growing up outdoors with a .22. They generally aren't as skilled at being all married up to some particular rifle, haven't spent all that much time traipsing around in the woods and fields, and just aren't all that good as hunters.

What a guy can do at a benchrest has little to do with his being able to get up close and personal with Bambi. Animals haven't gotten any stronger; on average, people's hunting skills have gotten weaker.

It's all sales hype to sell more guns as that's how they make money. When I lived in FL I bought a really nice 700 Classic in .300 H&H mag off a guy that used it for deer. Any of you ever seen FL deer? They aren't overly large.

Animals haven't gotten any stronger; on average, people's hunting skills have gotten weaker.

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Sig worthy.

Ubbergobangloudenboomer

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That is hilarious. I am going to use that.

Quote:
Ubbergobangloudenboomer

That is hilarious. I am going to use that.

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I was always told that English is a constantly growing and evolving language, so maybe I'll catch on.

If the caliber doesn't have magnum somewhere in the name, the game won't die.

Please,by all means,feel free to use "Ubbergobagloudenboomer"!

Tho' certainly NOT the loudest kid on the block one of my Marlin 1895s got that nick name a while back...Given to it by the father of a good friend of mine,a genuine Rhodesian he is.

Pamwe Chetme,my friend...

Well, the problem with today's game is that they are all mutated killing machines. After years of drinking hormone and chemical laced water, most deer now are covered in fur made out og naturally grown kevlar, with a muscle layer that is usually measured in meters.

In addition exposure to hormones has caused all game to have an insatiable blood-lust for humans. Its been documented many times that everything from rabbits to deer have ritualistically killed and eat hunters.

Thus, at the very least, a .300 Win Mag is needed for rabbit hunting, and nothing less than a .50 BMG with AP-I ammo is needed for deer hunting, least you be cornered and eaten by this dangerous game!

/slapstick

Honestly, the marketing department has to come up with a reason why you need the newest, biggest, and baddest caliber that they conceived. Also, decreasing skill of hunters may play a role in this too, as others have mentioned.

^That was awesome ^
"It is perfectly normal to get hurt while trying to get your food." Some guy in Hong Kong talking to Anthony Bordain on the Travel Channel.Yes we watch that here.

Another Great Shrinking Thread...

Keep it ON TOPIC please, folks.

Hint: The topic IS NOT grammar, spelling, punctuation etc.

lpl

I have read similar reasoning to why people get ubber magnums alot and I think you guys have it all wrong. I dont believe it is a matter of people believeing whether a particualr cartridge will kill an animal. I think is a matter of people now a days being alot lazier then what they once were and do not want to have to track an animal a mile through the woods.
I know, I know shot placement is paramont, however if you cant shoot for crap and you dont want to track, a 700NE is going to do you better then a 223 all things else being the same.

When it comes to the big bears, there's a big difference between shooting one from a distance and stopping one that's charging you. A caliber larger than .300 Win. Mag is recommended for the latter. Of course shot placement is always important.

When it comes to the big bears, there's a big difference between shooting one from a distance and stopping one that's charging you. A caliber larger than .300 Win. Mag is recommended for the latter. Of course shot placement is always important.

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Exactly. I agree all the "bigger is better" hype around big magnums with 20x scopes is unnecessary for the harvesting of deer and even elk. Under 300 yards the 308 win is more than ample even for moose if you know how to shoot.
That said, large brown bears are another matter. Certainly a 300 mag will kill one, but the possible consequences of not anchoring him immediately make something bigger a better choice. I have shot a couple in AK using a 375 H&H and did not feel overgunned when cresting a knoll and seing an 800lb boar at 75 yards. The guides I hunted with strongly recommend 338 and above, and actually really despise the 300wm, saying they've chased many more wounded bears from that round than any other. Theoretical ballistics aside, these guys have been involved in the taking of hundreds of brown bears.
Bottom line I think gun makers love to sell more guns, but the fact remains there are much better rounds for large brown bears than the 300wm.

When sales slump, manufacturers will drum up anything to move product.
I don't think bears have gotten any bigger or badder, maybe hunters on the whole have gotten, dare I say it, less manly!

Used to be a hunter would venture off with a 30-06 and a pocket knife to hunt bear, now, well, you don't dare go to field without at least a 375 H&H and 50 rounds of premium projectile ammo, a pocket knife, a sheath knife, at least a 454 Casull on your side with a 44 Mag. for back-up and $2000 worth of support equipment such as camel backs, GPS, weather monitoring radio, and lets not forget the satellite phones and laser rangefinders.

Whatever happened to grabbing a handfull of whatever ammo shot well from the ol' rifle, a can of coke and a moon pie and maybe a compass, after that, you were off.

I think our exposure to these magnificent creatures is becoming more limited than the days of old, so imagination plays a big part. And well, you just have to have a magnum of some sort to hunt with, nowadays anyway, right?

More power...good eh?

hmm...might be sumthin to it.
I shot "coon-zilla" a few nights ago with high velocity .22lr and it took 5 shots before he started to show any signs of even being hit.