Winchester Brass HORRIBLE quality control!

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

Rotting

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
23
I ordered 5 bags of Winchester 44 special brass (100 ct.) from a pretty well-known online retailer. I received the order of factory sealed bags in good condition. I opened the bags and started running them through the resizer die and got through about 25 or so of them before I realized something was really strange about this brass.

The brass was diagonal cut at the mouth. Meaning one side of the brass was taller than the other. I checked all the brass in the two bags that I opened and sure enough they are ALL cut this way.

Now some of you might be saying "Well, just trim the brass!" But, these are drastically out of spec. The average difference in the short and tall side of the brass is .02" !!!!! Most of the brass coming in at about 1.135" on the short side.

Of course, now my retailer is backordered on 44 special brass and there's no telling if and when I'll get a replacement batch should I send this bad brass back.

I thought about contacting Winchester directly, but they list nothing but a snail mail address on their website. Absolutely frickin' ridiculous. 100% disappointment with this product/brand.

Here're some pictures. In the third picture, notice how badly the brass leans when stood on its mouth. It's standing next to a nice, straight REMINGTON 44 magnum brass.

44short.jpg

44tall.jpg

leaning.jpg
 
Contact the retailer and tell them what Winchester's QC department didn't do. Ask for an exchange or a refund. Then don't buy Winchester... ever. I've never bought Win or Rem brass for this exact reason. Neither company has any QC in their brass depts. I've seen my neighbor weigh 9mm pistol cases and watched them vary 40 grains in weight, mouths cut off-level worse than that, mouths folded in, even half a bag that didn't have any primer holes punched. Soured me on both companies. Starline might run a tick higher in price, might even come with a wait or a scavenger hunt, but you won't ever get a crap product. If you can't wait for the backlog to clear, buy ammo off the shelf and start making your own once-fired brass.
 
Buzzard is right about contacting the retailer. Looking at the Starline website 44 spl will be available 5/7/10, so you won't have to wait too long.
 
Maybe I am just the lucky sort, but I have had great luck with Winchester brass.
 
"How much difference is it really going to make?? "

A meaningfull question. Fact is, it will make NO difference on target. The case wall slaps out against the chamber wall and seals the chamber when fired, the passing of the bullet will never know of any such small difference.
 
You'll put more time into dealing with Winchester and sending them back than you will with a flat file squaring them up by hand. It's brass. It cuts easily. When you're done you'll still have them rather than waiting around for the new shipment to show up.

I don't mean to minimize your feelings but sometimes doing the fix yourself is easier than screwing around with the manufacturer. You've learned a lesson. Don't order it again.

To me, this is like having to adjust the gap on your new spark plugs before putting them in your engine.

Lastly, I'll bet these were made and packaged by a sub-contractor. Winchester has no idea they are this bad.

All the Best,
Doug White
 
This is why the old books harp about sizing and trimming new brass. I've had Federal
brass like that as well. I think because they know it's going to be reloaded they must
skip the final step of squaring the case.

Sucks, but it must be dealt with.
 
Do the prep on one bag ful so you can shoot some. Contact winchester and tell them about it and that you had to prep one bag so you could shoot. Ask for replacements for all 500 and also let them know where you ordered it from.
 
"How much difference is it really going to make?? "

A meaningfull question. Fact is, it will make NO difference on target. The case wall slaps out against the chamber wall and seals the chamber when fired, the passing of the bullet will never know of any such small difference.
Click to expand...

I'm just a touch surprised at this post, but here's the difference that it makes in my eyes. Left the way it is, the brass will NOT crimp flush into the cannelure of my bullets. So, then the "solution" is to trim the case square. Well, to trim the entire batch square, we're talking about 44 special brass that is 1.130". That's not acceptable to me. I mean, at what point is that unacceptable to most people? When it becomes halfway between a 44 Special and a 44 Russian shell?

Call me nuts, but I'm don't enjoy dealing with half-assed components that I buy brand new.

Anyhow, thanks for the suggestions guys.
 
It certainly will not roll crimp worth a crap if left untrimmed/squared up. Even a taper crimp would be poor at best.

.02 is a lot.

I trim my .44 Spl to 1.150, after sizing.
 
"I'm just a touch surprised at this post, ... the brass will NOT crimp flush into the cannelure of my bullets. .. at what point is that unacceptable to most people? When it becomes halfway between a 44 Special and a 44 Russian shell?"

Didn't say it doesn't look bad but the point of my comment was that it won't matter to accuracy and doubt you would be able to prove it so. The crimp is all that would matter and that won't matter enough to make any accuracy difference.

I too wish all things were precise and inexpensive but it's not, so I live with it. Or fix it. Or buy more expensive brass. You can try Winchester but they will likely say it's within their specifications. But, I don't toss out such brass because I know it will shoot okay and suspect you will find that to be so too if you try shooting it instead of just looking at it.
 
I can't say I've ever seen any new brass quite that crooked. I'd trim one bag and do some bitching. You might be surprised with the results. Most places that sell something that defective will gladdly exchange them... but as you said, they're back-ordered.

It's not like you picked these off the ground, or got them for cheap, like we used to, they downright rape us on the price of their products. I agree that they would shoot fine, but I'd be pissed too.
 
What happened to Winchester brass? Have they subcontracted their brass to Communist block countries?

Used to be that Winchester brass was good stuff. Now it seems their QC has gone to pot.
 
:what: I've never seen it that bad.
I wonder what else is wrong with it ?
My older Win. 44spl brass cleaned up by 1.148", maybe Winchester is trying to compete with A-Merc :confused:
 
You might want to check the thickness on that before you shoot it.

The tall side might be a bit thin. Then you have to knock split cases out.

jim
 
Yuck...I would definitely be unhappy with those.

I wonder if they are made in communist red china?

Be interesting to find out who actually made them, leaving aside, that the 'Winchester' name is on them ( could they be Bootleg?)
 
All the Winchester brass I've yet bought has been consistent and of high quality. This must either be a fluke or, as others have suggested, knock-offs.
 
Well, that definitely sucks. I would like to relate my experience with Remington brass. To make it short, I bought 2000 virgin .38 super brass that was surplussed out at the CMP (from FBI? who knows...). Loaded it with Rem Golden Saber bullets, then put it on the shelf. Went to shoot it several months later, and about 1/3 of the lot, maybe 600, had cracks in the neck. Apparently, the metalurgy was off, and they were too brittle. I shipped a batch off to Remington, asked for a replacement or such, and they returned my brass/ammo, and said since it was older "surplus", they were not going to do anything. It was new, unfired, Remington marked .38 super. I will not be buying Remington brass. Let's see what Winchester is going to do for you. If they dump on you, who do we go to next, Starline?
 
I was the OP over on the S&W forum. Cabela's refunded me no questions asked. I had e-mailed Winchester CustServ. They were slow to respond, but did mail me a letter offering to send a pickup-shipping label to send it back to them for analysis - this was after I had already returned them to Cabela.

As to the question "what difference does it make?"

I would respond:

1) Cases were shorter than SAAMI minimum if trimmed. I would have to modify my flaring/seating die to get an adequate flare on the case mouth.

2) Trying to load them as supplied resulted in shaved lead, and a lopsided crimp. That might be adequate for your needs, but not for mine.

3) I paid good money for a product that was defective.
 
I just opened some 9mm Winchester and sized a few and started to trim them...hopeless proposition. Out of the first dozen or so some were too short to trim/square up and some were noticeably not cut square. I was really disappointed, but with this thread I guess I'm not alone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
New Winchester Brass - .22-250 - Quality Issue
Replies
6
Views
492
Blue68f100
Blue68f100
B
  • Locked
Winchester brass self identifies as Hornady
Replies
17
Views
664
dh1633pm
dh1633pm
J
  • Locked
Primer hole off center?
2
Replies
31
Views
904
Dudedog
Dudedog
Palladan44
  • Locked
New manufactured brass from Winchester- looks janky
Replies
19
Views
1K
splattergun
splattergun
G
  • Locked
QC problems with Winchester brass
Replies
7
Views
1K
JRH6856
JRH6856
Back
Top