Tell me about the 22 Hornet......

Status
Not open for further replies.
why use a hornet when you can download the .223

for some of us it's because we started shooting .22 hornet years before we ever even thought about buying a .223 (my case), or conversely inherited a hornet chambered rifle that was made before .223 was designed (like two fellow club members i know).

But really the main reason I can think of for not just downloading .223, is that doing so is a real PITA.

my own thoughts on redundancy with regard to .22 hornet have nothing to do with .223. But instead with the 5.7x28 FN, which in the "Civilian" loadings, is pretty much a rimless hornet.
 
the 5.7x28 FN, which in the "Civilian" loadings, is pretty much a rimless hornet.

And the free world shall rejoice if and when someone brings out a nice bolt action in this caliber!

Like the 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum, the 5.7X28 is an awesome middle of the road cartridge, better than all the 22 rimfires, not as booming as the 22 centerfires...couldn't think of a better close to mid range vermin round!
 
And the free world shall rejoice if and when someone brings out a nice bolt action in this caliber!

Uh, that's actually what i was trying to say about "redundant"...

other than "Iwannacoolgunitis" there is no legit reason for a 5.7x28 Bolt gun, it's lack of a rim is only really an advantage in semi-autos. And if i remember correctly can't you step up to K-Hornet simply by re-reaming the chamber of any existing Hornet? thus further narrowing any performace gap.

Especially since there are already 3 well known and fairly respected makers of .22 hornet chambered rifles (Ruger, Savage, CZ). I just don't see it ever happening, nor would i be a buyer of a 5.7FN bolt action.

couldn't think of a better close to mid range vermin round
again maybe not better. but one with performance so similar as to not really matter, and that already has a foothold in the market, albeit one smaller than the big boys and now .17HMR.
 
Well, if we worry about redundancy, we should really only have 3 or 4 different calibers of ammunition....all the rest of the thousand or so calibers are....are just redundant!

The 22 Hornet is a good round, I think the 5.7 would be also, but it might be like the 17HMR and the 22MAG, the Hornet may just be a tad better than a 5.7.
 
Well, if we worry about redundancy, we should really only have 3 or 4 different calibers of ammunition

You're absolutely right, it's really only small differences, and preferences that make up the reasons why we go outside of "the norm". for all practical purposes i could do everything i'd ever want to do with firearms using the 4 rounds i already have (.22LR, .223, .308, and 9mm) but to that list I will eventually to add .260Rem (for reasons easily found elsewhere), .45ACP (I have a strong affinity for 1911s), and .22 Hornet just cause i grew up with it.

And i DO see a niche for the 5.7x28, in pistols and Semi-auto rifles/carbines. I just have a "why bother, the hornet does the same thing, possibly better" veiw of it in a bolt gun.
then again i'm one of the guys that watched all the hype about the 6.5Grendel and 6.8 SPC in ARs and went "whatever".
 
I shot alot of Hornets
The first ones were out of a Winchester model 43 that I got while in highschool about 1960. It was a quantum leap up from the .22 Winchester 69 and the school team Win 52 I was familiar with. I shot big Pennsylvania chucks to 200 yards with it with a Weaver J4 scope and factory 45 grain ammo.
In the 70s I got deceased relative guns and one was a BSA Martini in .22K hornet with dies and shells. You just fire a regular .22 Hornet in a "K" chamber and pick up a few grains powder capacity and longer case lif in the cool looking K chamber. 3000 FPS with a 45 grain bullet out of that 26" Martini heavy barrel was death to any ground squirrel within about 250 yards with the 15x Lyman Super Target Spot. I still have that one. I picked up a Krico Mannlicher carbine in .22 Hornet and put a Leupold 6x on it , but a son got it about 10 years back. I also got an Anschutz Exlempar pistol with a Burris scope and that is one accurate Hornet holding less than 1 MOA with good loads. I used to use it to zap squirrel around the ranchette till more neighbors built around me (now I use the much quieter .17 HMR) it is a little louder than a .22 magnum BTW.
I still own a couple Czech made M-6s, one with a reflex sight and the stainless one plain. Well my other son takes the stainless M-6 Scout hiking alot, it is now hisHe feels it can kill any critter in California ifhe had to survive.. I use the M-6 with reflex to humanely slaughter goats and sheep that I can't grab and who stay about 50 feet away at the closest. The .22 Hornet is about the ultimate slaughter gun as a decent head shot jells the brain and makes the unseeing eyes bulge!
Theweirdest .22 Hornet I ever owned , and still do, is a K Hornet Colt Single Action Bisley conversion that was masterfully done in the 50s by Christie Gun Works. It has Micro sights and a very light crisp trigger. Since it is a Bubba Bisley it only cost me $900 about 10 years back (when I had money!) and is a cherish possesion. It shoots the 45grain Hornady bullet at 2000fps and 1 inch at 25 yards rested! I sighted it in and retired the pretty thing!
The .22 Hornet was made in the 20s by Watkins from the .25-20 SINGLE SHOT case necked down. The 25-20 Winchester case is the parent of the slightly later .218 Bee and is enough bigger that is easier to reload and the 25-20 is a real honey of a only slightly shorter ranged varmint cartride which kills better than the .22 Hornet, but THAT is another story!
Whew!
 
I shoot a lot of 22 Hornet. I guess a nostalgic round to me. I own 4 guns chambered in it. 2 CZ rifles, 1 Ruger 77/22 and a TC Contender. I remember being a kid and my uncle turning me lose on his farm with a Kimber rifle chambered in it and slaying ground hogs.

Great varmint round. Accurate and cheap to load but it can be tricky. As mentioned COL is critical particularly in the CZ rifles, limits me to 40g or 45g in them. Brass is fairly fragile. Prone to short re-loading life. Neck splits and you can take some out loading them during bullet seating.
 
due to it's smaller size, it makes a better handgun cartridge

That, and it's commonly loaded with fast burning handgun powders. I use H-110 almost exclusively.

the 25-20 is a real honey of a only slightly shorter ranged varmint cartride which kills better than the .22 Hornet

Yes, and no. Problem is the lack of light weight bullets with decent B.C. in .257" caliber. The 75's are a bit heavy for the .25-20, especially since they were designed with the .257 Bob and .25-06 velocities in mind (they perform spectacularly out of my .25-06 at 3,700 FPS). The 60 grain RNSP commonly used for the .25-20 doesn't have the explozive expansion of the varmint bullets, either. IMO, modern bullets like the 35 and 40 gr. V-max make the .22 Hornet superior to the .25-20 as a varmint cartridge.

I would love to have a nice .25-20 levergun, though.
 
Gordon; lots of good personal info there. So you have a BSA and a M-6 in hornet config? Do you possibly have any pics? anyone who wants an m-6, you should only look for one that is part hornet...
 
I have a CZ 527 in 22 Hornet. As many will tell you, the Hornet can be very finicky, but if you reload and you're patient, you'll probably find a load that you are very happy with. It took me a while, but mine seems to love the Hornady 40gr V-max bullet, and Hodgdon Lil' Gun powder. I tried about six different bullets and 3 powders before getting to this point. Last week I shot 5 different targets with the 40gr V-max and Lil' Gun combo, using published Hornady load data with various powder charges. All were 5 shot groups at 100 yds, and I was very happy that all came in at under 1". The best was 0.55" :D I've tried no crimp, and the Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD), and the FCD seems to tighten up the groups some. I also use a Lee collet die for neck-sizing, and size just the top portion of the neck (about a bullet's diameter down from the case mouth). If you do a search, one of the noble Highroaders has explained how to do this by using washers on the shell holder.

I've heard the 35 gr Hornady V-max works well for many, but not for my rifle. I'll typically find that 3 of 5 shots group tightly, but I usually get two that open things up to 1.25" or so. Still not bad, but the 40 gr bullets seem to do better.

The Hornet's report is definitely much milder than a .223, but don't expect .22 WMR noise levels either. At least that's my experience with my rifle.

Overall, I LOVE this round. I'm thinking about picking up a Savage in this caliber as well.

Hope this helps!

P51D
 
The .22 Hornet is a fun round - accurate, quiet, no recoil, easy to reload, usually available in light easy to carry rifles...what more do you need? I have a 14" T/C Contender pistol with a 4x leupold scope - its a real tackdriver! I use it on varmints & small game - carry it in a shoulder holster. If you get t chance - try one - I think you'll like it.
 
It should be noted that the 22 Hornet has been widely used in the Far North for everything by subsistence hunters. (And one of the largest polar bears ever killed was killed by someone using a 22 lr--I just don't want to get that close to something trying to kill me).
 
virtual failure of the .222 Rem. mag.
Ah man, yer hurtin' my feelings. :D A few of us die hard .222 Mag shooters left. ;)

It wasn't a failure, it was just killed off by the .223 and it's readily available, cheap cases. It still has a slight edge on the .223 if you handload. :)

I like the .22 Hornet. Quiet, low recoil, excellent for small varmints at up to 300 yards. (Pushing it)

Accuracy varies. Great group one minute and a poor one the next in some rifles. I had a couple of Hornets I should have kept. Didn't realize the gems I had. (Old Savage 23D and a Sako)

I now have a Ruger 77/22 and want another Hornet, A CZ or a Browning I think. A Sako if I get lucky and find one reasonable.
 
I bought a K-hornet barrel for my contender over ten years ago. I love it. I used to use H110/WC820 but found that 13 grains of lil'gun gave me better performance, about 3000 fps with a 40 grain vmax. Very nice. I am going to see how it sounds when suppressed when I make my yearly "test the silencers" trip to Vegas.

Ranb
 
mmm... a 40 grainer vmax bullet doing 3000 fps; like someone goosing up a 22mag. that has to be so satisfying when it goes off....
 
The .22 Hornet is the first true varmint cartridge. In 1922, the Army decided to build a quality .22 rimfire rifle for training, target competition, and for sale to encourage marksmanship. The rifle was built at Springfield Armory, using the same tooling and fixtures as the M1903 Springfield -- and many M1922 parts will interchange with the M1903.

Craftsmen at Springfield were among the first civilians to buy this new rifle. As anyone who has shot one can tell us, the M1922 was not just a good competition rifle for its day, it was also a good hunting rifle. The boys at Springfield tried it on game including woodchucks. And there they encountered problems. First of all, a 'chuck is a pretty hefty critter, weighing several pounds -- much bigger than a squirrel or rabbit. Second, 'chucks are usually found in pastures, and your average 40-acre pasture is a quarter mile square, 440 yards on a side. So shots at 'chucks tended to be long range -- too long for the .22 Long Rifle.

The boys at Springfield cast around for a better cartridge, and the found one, the .22 Winchester Central Fire (WCF). The .22 WCF was developed in the mid-1880s as a black powder cartridge. Apparently the intent was to produce something with more oomph than the .currently available rimfires and to be reloadable.

The black powder heritage is apparent when you look at the case. Black powder combustion products are from 40% to 60% solid (depending on composition) and that's what creates all that fouling. A small bore, plus a large charge makes for real fouling problems. The case is therefore tapered, with a sloping shoulder -- that makes it easier to extract from a badly fouled chamber. That same shape also makes for less than stellar accuracy. Especially when coupled with 19th Century standards in manufacturing -- a standard .22 WCF case is a pretty sloppy fit in a standard .22 WCF chamber.

The .22 WCF didn't set the world on fire, but it did hang on until the 1920s, when the boys at Springfield developed a smokeless powder load that better than doubled the velocity of the .22 Long Rifle, and with a 45 grain bullet, rather than a 40 grain bullet, which was more or less standard in the .22 LR. They then re-chambered M1922s for the .22 WCF, and modified the bolt, firing pin and extractor. The story is that when Colonel Townsend Whelen first shot the smokeless powder version of the .22 WCF he remarked, "Boy, that's a hornet!" and the name stuck.

The Hornet was adopted by Winchester, and was soon surpassed by other .22 centerfires, but it has seen occasional times of modest popularity. The general pattern is a new generation of shooters are intrigued by the idea behind the Hornet -- a little case, a little bit of powder, and a fairly mild report with very low recoil. But then reality sets in, the Hornet just isn't that accurate.

I admit to falling prey to the lure of the Hornet -- my Hornet is a Kimber M82, and I've had it for many years. Here in the Ozarks, it makes a fine crow and coyote rifle. Sharp-eyed people may note that Arkansas game laws specify "nothing larger than .22 rimfire" for crows. But there is an exception -- during coyote season. Coyote season runs from the First of July through the 28th of February, then starts again about a week or so later with the opening of Spring turkey season, and runs through the 13th of June. In other words, it's pert' near always coyote season in Arkansas, and you can use the Hornet on crows to your heart's content.

My M82 is a beautiful little rifle, but it just wasn't all that accurate. To me, the Hornet is like a red-headed woman -- alluring, frustrating, attractive and capricious. Being a rather stubborn type, I set out to master the Hornet, and eventually developed a load that will regularly shoot sub-inch groups at 100 yards. Here is the secret to the Hornet.

1. Fire form your brass. The case is a sloppy fit in the chamber, but once fired in your rifle, it is a perfect fit -- in your chamber.

2. Disturb the brass as little as possible. The standard reloading die puts a lot of stress on a case, and Hornet brass is thin. We have to remember that when neck resizing, all the force is transmitted from the head to the neck through the walls of the case. I use a Lee Collet Die, where the only stress is radial.

3. Don't resize the whole neck. The Lee Collet Die is designed to size the whole neck and activates when the base of the collet tube contacts the shell holder. You can't adjust it by screwing it in or out. I put a couple of washers on the shell holder, around the case. The collet tube contacts the washers and activates early. You can look at my neck-sized cases and see a line around the neck, about half way between mouth and shoulder. The unsized portion of the neck acts as a pilot, centering the neck in the chamber.

4. Use the right powder. I use Hodgdon's Li'l Gun. Li'l Gun has a lower but more prolonged peak than other powders. It is therefore able to achieve high velocities at lower pressure. Typically, a case full of Li'l Gun will develop about 28,000 CUP, and the Hornet's max is 40,000 CUP. I don't weigh my charges, I use the case itself as a dipper. I fill the case and strike it off (draw a straight edge across the case mouth to brush off any excess powder) then tap the case lightly to settle the powder a fraction of an inch. This load breaks 3,000 fps over my Shooting Chrony.

5. Use the right bullet. No rifle will shoot more accurately than the bullets it is fed. I use the 35 grain Hornady V-Max. It shoots accurately, and is deadly on everything from crows to coyotes. But it has one even more important characteristic. Hornets usually shoot best when the bullet is loaded close to the origin of the rifling. This usually results in an overall cartridge length that won't feed through the magazine. V-Max bullets in .22 caliber all have about the same shank length -- the weight differences comes in the length of the nose. The 35 grain looks like it started out to be a round-nose bullet, and changed its mind at the last minute. You can load the 35 grain V-Max out to where the shoulder of the bullet actually touches the origin of the rifling, and still have an OAL that will feed through the magazine.

Follow these five steps, and you will produce .22 Hornet ammunition that will shoot as accurately as any other varmint cartridge, and will bring out the full potential of this fine little round.
 
Vern,

Nice summary of the Hornet. Al Woodworth's original .22 Hornet NRA Springfield is in the NRA Museum.

Key to getting good accuracy in the Hornet is having a proper chamber. The standard SAAMI chamber belies its blackpowder origins and is not of ideal configuration. The European CIP chamber is much better and gives better accuracy. The Europeans have long appreciated the Hornet as a low-noise, efficient cartridge and have successfully engineered rifles and ammo for it which meet any hunter's realistic expectations.

Traditional .22 Hornet barrels were rifled to the same nominal specs as .22 LR (.217x.2225 +0.0015-0.000 with 16 inch twist) because available barrels were often just rechambered.

If building a .22 Hornet rifle today I would use a normal .224" groove diameter centerfire barrel blank of good steel and good quality in either a 14" or 12" twist. If I had only a reamer for the SAAMI-dimensioned chamber I would have the throat ground off and use the reamer to cut the chamber body and neck only, and then use a separate throater to enable use of common .224 bullets up to 55 grains, seated out as long as will fit in the magazine.

Single-shot rifles have advantages because you are not limited by magazine length. When I shot groundhogs with a Hornet I used the Sierra 50-gr. Blitz or Hornady 50-gr. SX bullets in a 12" twist (M16A1 barrel blank) chambered with a SAAMI reamer with its throat ground off, and custom throated the barrel using a Winchester 52D .22 LR Match reamer to accept a round with 50-grain bullet seated with its base flush to the base of the case neck, using a nominal caseful of IMR4198 trickled in with a 10-inch drop tube, and Federal 200 primers. Alot of turkeys and woodchucks fell down in front of that load.
 
The one with the Lyman Super Targetspot is the .22 K Hornet
oiling007.gif
the one above it is a .17 Remington with a Lyman Bench Rest scope. The Browning B78 Falling block below the .22 Hornet Martini is 22-250.The Ruger on top is a 25-06. The Little Stevens 44 on the bottom is 25-20
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top