Brother is going fishing in Alaska- What should I loan him?

What should I loan to my brother?

  • .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk (5.5" Blued) loaded with 335 gr LFN +P Buffalo Bore or ???

    Votes: 99 44.2%
  • .41 Mag S&W 657 (6" Stainless) loaded with 210 gr JSP Remington or ???

    Votes: 45 20.1%
  • .44 Special S&W 624 (4" Stainless) loaded with hot LSWC/LFN from BB, DT or Grizzly

    Votes: 25 11.2%
  • .45 Colt S&W 625MG (4" Stainless- Night Sights) loaded with a BB or DT heavy standard pressure LSWC

    Votes: 36 16.1%
  • .357 Mag Ruger Police Service-Six (4" Blued) loaded with 180 gr Federal Cast Cores or BB/DT equiv

    Votes: 19 8.5%

  • Total voters
    224
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.455_Hunter

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My brother and friends are going salmon fishing in Alaska this coming September. The coastal area they visit is also popular with bears. They always see some, and a couple of time they have "hurried" to get he float plane airborne due to active bear encroachment. For this years trip I have offered one of my larger bore sidearms as some extra insurance against a surprise bad encounter. My brother is an experienced shooter, but mostly with mid-power rounds, like 9 mm, .38 special, and .45 acp. Please vote and comment on what you think I should loan him for the trip. Thanks!
 
What specific river is he fishing on? Bear populations are different from region to region. Some are more laid back than others.
 
:banghead: Yet another bear thread.

I voted for the Blackhawk because while all of the sidearms you mentioned are fine arms and would serve well, it is the only one on your list that could be easily replaced should something happen to it. I'm not saying any thing derogitory about your brother as I do not know him, or you. I do know that stuff happens in the great outdoors. I think your brother would rather loose a gun that can be had by simple special order at most any gunshop if it wasn't on the shelf, than a hard to find collectors piece that requires searching the internet and gun shows to find a suitable replacement.
 
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They fish on the Tsiu River east of Cordova.

The reason I listed the .357 as an option is because it is easy to carry, shoot and the penetration on heavy .357 solids is nothing to sneeze at. My wife carried that gun when we went backpacking in AK in 2004.
 
I am not quite sure why this is a :banghead: discussion... :confused:

Yes- there are lots of "bear threads", but I am asking a specific question (what gun to loan) about something that is going to happen (brother fishing in AK).

I am not asking a theoretical question about what gun I could buy in the future for my mythical future AK moose hunt...

Thanks for you input!
 
Brother is going fishing in Alaska- What should I loan him?

If he driving across Canada to get there a good 12ga. slug gun. If he is flying in to Alaska the S&W 625 MT 45 LC.
 
Any of the last three choices will work. People underrate the .44 special and with good ammo as you have indicated, it can do the job. .41 mag is the most capable caliber there, but it's a more awkward 6" length and also a harder gun to get used to if he's not a magnum shooter. .357 can do the job and is not that much harder to shoot if he's a good .45 shooter as you stated.

I think another under-rated aspect in bear country is have more than one armed member of the party. If the other members aren't taking a quality defensive woods gun, do the smart thing and loan a second gun to one of them to cover your brother's six. When we are in bear country I make sure one other person besides myself has a capable gun should I end up in trouble.
 
Option 1. Those heavy projectiles will go deeper. That said, this would be my chosen side-arm as back-up. My primary weapon choice would be an 870 12 gauge. JMHO.

Edit to add: pick up a copy of Larry Kelly's and J.D. Jones' book Hunting for Handgunners, and read page 225. If that doesn't explain with all due clarity why I posted what I did, nothing else I could say would:

This brown bear was shot in self-defense after it tried to enter the cabin where Kelly and his guide held forth; 16 rounds of .375 H&H, .44 Magnum, .375 JDJ were used.

Read the whole page and see the picture.

Geno
 
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Bearanoia

I went fishing in Alaska during June and even walked around where Treadwell became famous. The brown bears there around those streams are so used to seeing people that they are going to walk away when they see or smell you. AK is looking at and may have already enacted laws where you have to leave if a bear gets within 40 yards of you or something like that.

Brown bears are much, much more predictable than black bears. When they walk up near you they will probably pay you no mind. The guides where I went would lob rocks at them to get their attention and tell them to get away.

Brown bears show agitation by opening and closing their mouths quickly, which is their stage one. If you are their for agitation stage 2 when they continuously "yawn" you really need to get moving. Sometimes it is best to just go upwind of the bear if it's possible so that he will smell you. This usually sobers them right up and they lumber away.

The coastal grizzlies are in their highest concentration in the world where I was fishing for halibut. There were all kinds of bear viewers walking around with their $4000 dollar camera rigs. I got these pictures with a regular lens so that put it at about 40 feet away.

The rainbow fishing in September is outrageously good, tell him to enjoy!
 

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None of the above. Any of those handguns are capable of killing a bear, but the only guaranteed "stop" is a hit through the nose for a brain shot. A body shot just means the bear will die some time later after it has its way with you. It's easier to make that shot with a long arm. Brown bear attacks are lightning fast. They simply stalk in from short range and charge at 40 mph, or are surprised at short range and charge at 40 mph. Normally, they begin their run from 20 yards or less. That's how it happens in real life. The bears that rumble and grumble and make a threat display have no intention of charging - zap them with pepper spray. Real attacks happen without warning. You'll likely only have one shot and if you hit the mouth or nose, it's over. Hit anywhere else and you're going to get mauled.

You want a short barreled shot gun, or a big bore carbine with a ghost ring set up. Save your handguns for black bear country. With a shotgun, test different slugs and make sure they hit at point of aim. There will be no time for Kentucky windage.

Center of mass on a charging bear is the nose (see photo below). That's a do-able shot with a long arm and a very tough shot with a handgun.

And yes, you can tote a shotgun while fishing (see photo).

I live here, and have been there and done that. If you feel safer with a handgun around camp, then bring one. But once you start down the trail or stake out a fishing hole, have a long arm. Trust me on this.

BearCharge.jpg

fishing.jpg
 
Wow is all i can say lol, look over the course of probally 50 bear threads arguing with kodiakbeer lol Ive decided that i if can carry a short barreled 12 guage, and have it where i can get it easly in case of bad scenario then, ill take the 12 guage. Now over that course of 50 bear threads and thousands of pages ill agree to disagree on handgun caliber choice ;)
 
Sonier, it's all matter of context. If you fish in coastal Alaska, you will see brown bears every day - bears going up into the 1200 pound range. Most of those encounters will be benign, but you will have the encounters.

In summer I go to Anchorage (which has a growing crime problem) but feel quite comfortable carrying a .380 Mustang since I avoid bad neighborhoods. Yet, if I was employed in some fashion that made it necessary to go into bad neighborhoods, I'd carry my .45 even if it was inconvenient for summer carry. Context.

It's the same in the wild. If I was just camping in Denali with a grizzly population of 1 bear per 50 square miles, then.. eh, I'd carry my Ruger .45 Colt with some buffalo bore level loads. When you fish in coastal Alaska there's a bear density of 1 per square mile. And when the fish are running, they're on the streams with a density of 5 or 10 per square mile (no exaggeration). They're all around you. Many are sows with cubs. Many others are injured, usually in fights with other bears over fishing rights. When you step into the middle of that, you'd better be ready for anything and be armed with the most effective weapon, even if carrying that is a bit inconvenient.

My offer stands. If you ever come up to Alaska in August-September, I'll take you out fishing and show you a couple dozen brownies at close range. It's easy to "get it" when you deal with these animals.

Just two or three days ago, some acquaintances got chased out of a fishing hole by an aggressive bear. It wasn't an actual attack, just a series of bluff charges. They had one handgun between them, and no pepper spray. The bear stayed in the alders along the creek where it was nearly invisible but within ten to twenty yards (alders are like jungle), popping its jaws and making short charges until they swam across the river to escape. Popping rounds into the trees would have just resulted in a wounded bear - pepper spray would have solved their problem.

A few days before that, a married couple I know took ATV's out to a remote fishing spot, parked and walked 100 or so yards down to the river - the alders preventing them for riding the rest of the way in. When they got back, a bear had totally destroyed one of the ATV's and begun working on the other one when they interrupted it. It left as they approached, but they had to tow one of the TV's out over a mountain pass. It took them all night. This is the way it is. These bears get territorial about their fishing holes. Sometimes they'll just push you out with a display, but they are quite smart enough to destroy your vehicle, tent, equipment, etc, to make their point.

This is daily life around here in the summer. Most of the episodes are like those I just described where lives are not really at stake. But occasionally, a bear will just take direct action and when they do you'll want some heavy ordnance, and you'll want something that can make that CNS hit with little to no warning.
 
In the short time I spent in Alaska in my youth, I also carried a rifle in the coastal region. Looking back on it now, it was probably not the best choice but it sure is a popular one. I cannot say if a Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 would have been enough since I never had to shoot it at a bear. There were many bears but no aggressors.

I just hope that the hottest ammo Buffalo Bore made for 45-70 back in 2002 would have been enough.

BTW: I also had a 44 on the hip. It was a secondary weapon. Just as it should have been.
 
I wouldn't want any of those as my first choice either. The smallest I'd want is my Ruger SBH .44 mag. But, only if I was so encumbered with other stuff that I couldn't have a 12ga 3" magnum 00/slug/00/slug, or a guide gun... with a single point sling... ready to be raised and fired.

And, I'm sorry... this whole "more predictable than black bears" talk... I gotta raise the B.S. flag on that. Bears can't read and don't know what these predictions talked about are. I'm not a bear, but, I'm sure they have good days and bad days. They can be crankier than usual when they're hungry, or not feeling good, have a bad tooth, just got their ass kicked by a bigger bear for the tenth time in a week and are in NO mood to "give way" one more time before their next feast, or sow in heat... or whatever makes them feel laid back and care free. Any one who's come to believe that about bears... by reading a book, reading an internet post, or some other means... well... God bless you.

Can some things be done? Sure... my Inuit grandfather hunted bears in the arctic with a .22 rolling block single shot... and lived to tell about it "shoot 'em in the ear" is what my dad told me he'd say. Well... that's all he had, and north of Kotzebue, Sears was a catalog order away (and the next barge's delivery the following year). Thankfully, I have more options available to me, and, if I get a chance to do the Alaska wilderness game harvesting adventure again... I'm sure not going to limit myself to the poll's list of choices. And, I'm sure not gonna be in any shape to kid myself that I can outrun a bear, or climb a tree like a monkey. And, if while soiling myself, I miss that CNS shot, I hope to be able to break him down enough to slow him down so I can get off a second shot... with a cool enough head to not be convulsing with fear and get the right bead for shot #2.
 
I guess the Ruger Blackhawk would be the best amongst the choices you provided. Personally I would opt for the S&W double action revolver in 460 S&W or at the least a DA revover in 44 magnum.
 
.455,

I'd loan him a good fishing pole and a inexpensive Mossie 500 riot gun with good Brenneke slugs.

Nice thing is a 500 is CHEAP, and can be disassembled into luggage real easy.

Deaf
 
.41 Mag w/Buffalo Bore including Keith hard lead Semiwadcutters.
I carried a POS Stainless Steel Taurus Tracker in .44 Mag only 'cause I couldn't find it in .41 Mag Titanium.
Al
 
I picked the Ruger in .45 colt, which should offer about the same power in +p loads as a .44 magnum. I wouldn't trust the Smith 625 with the same ammo. The Ruger also has more barrel.

I grew up in coastal AK, still go hiking there every summer, and I'm sold on bear spray. It's way easier to pack than a shotgun or rifle, especially if your hands are tied up with fishing. I usually pack spray for bears and an Airweight Smith snubbie for wild dogs, which I've come across more often than bears in the places I frequent. What a person should pack depends on where they're going.
 
Hey Kodiakbeer - - - - what do you think a load of 12 guage, 3 inch 00 magnum buckshot in the face would do in a real life charge with one of those bruins. I'd really like to know what you think. If you've only got one shot - - - ???

I've had a lot of experience with Black Bears - - - had one clicking and hissing and running at me once. All I did was stand my ground and he changed his mind. It sounds like the probability of a bad encounter with one of yours is unlikely - - - but more likely than one with a Black Bear
in the lower 48.

I had another thought too - a close charge probably wouldn't give you enough time to unsling and shoot before the animal freight trained over you. What do you do?

As for handguns - - - Ruger Alaskan in .454?
 
If the revolvers are the only options,.41 Mag loaded with Corbon 250grain Hunter HC:
http://www.dakotaammo.net/CORregBON...0gr-CORBON-Hunter-HC/HT41250HC-20/300/Product

Ideally a 12 gauge as a primary with the revolver used as a backup. I carry a short-barreled "Robarized" 870 and a S&W 329PD when I fish in AK.

I was bluff charged by a Brown Bear when fishing in AK once. I can assure you that the 12 gauge I was carrying felt very "small" when that beast was running toward us!

Also, remind him that it's recommended to carry 2 bear deterrents at all times and to be especially careful while cooking. Oh, and someone in the group needs to be the designated "bear spotter" while fishing if he'll be in a heavily-populated Brown / Grizzly Bear area.

Hope this helps!
 
Hey Kodiakbeer - - - - what do you think a load of 12 guage, 3 inch 00 magnum buckshot in the face would do in a real life charge with one of those bruins. I'd really like to know what you think. If you've only got one shot - - - ???

I think it would be just fine as long as you make the hit - the ranges we are talking about are right in your face. The snout and mouth are actually hollow areas with very little bone to stop a projectile of any kind. A lot of people think they should aim "between the eyes" or into the forehead which is why there is a myth about bear heads being bullet-proof. The brain is actually low in the head behind the nose and mouth. The top of the head is actually a bony sagittal crest where the neck and jaw muscles attach - there's no brain up there, so a hit just makes them mad.

I had another thought too - a close charge probably wouldn't give you enough time to unsling and shoot before the animal freight trained over you. What do you do?

It's the same issue no matter what you carry - unsnapping and drawing a handgun is no quicker than throwing down with a long gun. I carry a little double barrel coach gun sticking out of my pack with the stock over my right shoulder. I also carry pepper spray on a chest holster.
 
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