Obligation to Notify vs. Advised to Notify - Virginia

Advise Officer!!!!

Whether or not you are obligated by law or you choose to advise it sounds like the best policy. To you officers out there, wouldn't you want to know the speeder you just stopped is carrying??

Personally, if not required by law, I would only notify the officer that I was carrying when I thought it was possible that the fact would come to light without my notification. In that case, I want the officer to learn it from me, in a calm and non-startling manner.

In a simple traffic stop, I would have no reason to notify. If I was asked to get out of the vehicle, I'd notify him at that point.

Why does everyone always believe there needs to be a black and white answer to this? If the cop pulls you over and is professional and friendly, tell him. If he acts like you just made a pass at his wife then give him your info and don't say another word.

Personally, if not required by law, I would only notify the officer that I was carrying when I thought it was possible that the fact would come to light without my notification. In that case, I want the officer to learn it from me, in a calm and non-startling manner.

In a simple traffic stop, I would have no reason to notify. If I was asked to get out of the vehicle, I'd notify him at that point.

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I tend to agree with ttolhurst. I see no reason to notify if not required by law, unless you are in a situation where its likely to become evident.

I don't say anything. It's not required and not necessary in Virginia. It may be prudent in other states; use your best judgment.

Virginia officers know you have a CHP permit because it is tied to your drivers license and vehicle registration. He or she also knows you are a certified good guy. Fairfax County PD understands CHP's and what it means.

Additionally, Fairfax County PD knows and understands open carry. They have been "schooled" by VCDL. They also know that 99.999% of people who open carry (OC) are not involved with crime. I'm certain they suspect that a significant percentage of people who OC have CHP permits (some Virginia laws do go away with a CHP permit).

Be careful who you notify that you have a gun. Some officers will take it in stride, but there is always the idiot who will blow it way out of proportion. If you're just being pulled over for emissions stickers, speeding, or some other minor moving violation, then notification should be withheld. I'd notify them if I had to get out of the car simply so nobody overreacts to the sudden revelation that you are armed. Thus the bro shall likely taze you not.

And as 230therapy said, FCPD does know about and mostly understands open carry. However, not all the resident population will be as sympathetic. People who aren't in the know/dumb/panicky may not like it, but that's hardly a reason to write it off. I've never had a serious OC issue with anyone; I have never been arrested or anything like that.

Virginia is one of the best gun states in the nation. The only three things that I can currently think of are these:

#1: The state is not Constitutional Carry. Open Carry is almost anything goes, but Concealed Carry requires that you be 21 to get the shall-issue permit.
#2: Restrictions on what can be carried openly. You can't OC any rifles with folding stocks or with a magazine in that that holds more than 20 rounds. Shotguns can't have any special folding or whatever stocks, and their maximum capacity I think is 5 shells of their largest available ammunition .
#3: Unless you have a CC permit, you are subject to the one handgun a month law.

Virginia's a great gun state, but it often gets forgotten about, overlooked, or it is underrated. Virginia isn't famous for being a gun place, even though it is the home of the NRA and The Nation's Gun Show. A lot of gun guys come from more of the deeper South and the West, so naturally, they're going to talk more about things in the home Arizona, Texas, and other such states. Lastly, people really don't think that much of Virginia, and seeing that it borders Maryland, many don't really pay much attention to it. It's kind of like (excuse this analogy) Call of Duty 3. They're both good and solid, but they're simply overshadowed by more spectacular and famous alternatives.

Again with this? Really?

But, I'll bite anyway. I don't feel the need to tell the police officer during a traffic stop about my cell phone. I don't feel the need to tell the police officer about my CD collection. I don't feel the need to tell the police officer about the jumper cables in the trunk.

Why? Because they are all objects which are in my legal possession and are being transported in a legal manner.

The gun on my belt is NO DIFFERENT than any other legal object that I possess! Guns present no danger to a police officer! Criminals do. If the fact that I pull over in the safest possible place for the police officer, have my window down all the way, ignition turned off, driver's license in hand, seat belt still fastened, other hand on the steering wheel, greet the officer with pleasantries, have insurance and registration readily available... if all of that does not "comfort" the officer, than me handing him an extra piece of paper that he has no idea is valid or not and telling him that I have gun is not going to either.

If I tell the police officer about my lawfully and SAFELY possessed gun, it is going to accomplish one thing, and one thing only. It is going to invite him to handle, or even order me to handle the firearm unnecessarily, which will put him, myself, and innocent bystanders in more danger from the gun than they were in to begin with. Not all officers will accept the invitation to handle the firearm I tell them about - but some will.

Now, if the officer does happen to find out about my license to carry on the radio when he calls in my driver's license, he has absolutely no legitimate reason whatsoever to ask about a gun upon his return. He knows that any gun carried/possessed is 99% likely to be legal because of the license. He felt no danger enough to ask about a gun before he left me and went back to his car. What legitimate excuse could he have for asking about a gun after he finds out about my license?

Is it really worth inviting the police officer to handle your gun to increase the chances of getting out of a ticket?

Again, only applicable in states (40 of them) that do not require notification by law.

"if the officer does happen to find out about my license to carry on the radio"

Don't they all have computers?

Don't they all have computers?

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Many do. They all have radios. Either way, not all have access to information about CCW permits. They certainly don't in Maine, where there is no single repository of CCW permits (they are issued by individual towns as well as by the State here).

One thing to remember........

That as posted previously, if you are a Virginia resident, with a CHP....the officer will know this WHEN HE FIRST APPROACHES YOUR VEHICLE!!
Your VA CHP is tied to your motor vehicle registration.
I have been in training classes where the instructor has said, you DO NOT need to tell the VA police officer you are carrying, because he already knows-
As I have not been pulled over in a long time(not since getting my CHP), my decision is only bring it up if he does....
Now, in places like NC, and others, you DO HAVE to notify the officer when he first comes to your vehicle.
So, I just plan on notifying by handing my CHP along with my driver's license if/when I am ever stopped outside of VA.....

Pud

I see no good that can come of telling the officer (unless you're playing the "good guy card" to get out of a ticket -- hey, it works sometimes!), and a lot that can go badly.

I'm not trying to get on the officer's good side, I don't believe telling him decreases my chances of getting harassed, delayed, or shot (unless I'm being asked to step out of the car and will be frisked), and I don't see how knowing (for SURE) I'm armed helps an officer one iota more that NOT knowing (for sure) that every other person s/he stops is armed. After all, what kind of idiot officer would assume that the people who DON'T disclose that they are armed are the "safe" ones?

I don't want to be hassled, don't want to be disarmed, don't want to be swept/muzzled while the cop tries to unload or otherwise manipulate my sidearm, don't need my numbers 'run', thanks, and -- (yes, this has happened to me) didn't schedule 20 minutes out of my day for sitting on the side of the road talking guns and gun shops with the nice officer.

Now, to further compound my 'druthers," here in PA we have a state database of handgun sales records. The PSP has had a real bad habit of confiscating firearms disclosed during traffic stops and running their numbers without any cause beyond "policy." If the gun does not return a positive record in the database, they will (at least sometimes) confiscate the gun and then you're left having to prove ownership (somehow) to go retrieve your property at a later date. Now, there are plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons why your gun might not be in the sales record database, and it is NOT supposed to be used to prompt confiscations. But here we are.

So, no, thanks...I won't be notifying.

I have been in training classes where the instructor has said, you DO NOT need to tell the VA police officer you are carrying, because he already knows-

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No, he doesn't know you're carrying. He may know that you have a permit to do so, but that's hardly the same thing.

ttolhurst said:

No, he doesn't know you're carrying. He may know that you have a permit to do so, but that's hardly the same thing.

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OK, my bad....he will only know you have a PERMIT to carry.
IMHO, at that point, he is going to ASSUME you probably are carrying.
I can go on with "exceptions"...What if your spouse is driving your car, which registration shows only your name, with a carry permit tied to it....But, he/she doesn't have a permit, and is not carrying?? Chances are, the officer is still going to assume there is a firearm being carried.
I was just trying to show that in VA, when a officer runs your tags, they will know this person who owns this car has a permit to carry.

Pud

IMHO, at that point, he is going to ASSUME you probably are carrying.

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Though, at some point this goes back to my previous point: What officer, who plans to make it to retirement some day, doesn't assume EVERY driver is armed?

The ones upstanding enough to have a permit/license to do so -- and certainly the ones chummy enough to bring it up on their own -- are not the ones he should be on his toes about. If anything, some smart officers may see that as reason to relax a notch because this driver has had a pretty clean record as far as the system knows.

The even smarter officer won't relax his/her guard for ANY driver, because just because this person was able to obtain a permit at some point in the last 5(?) years doesn't mean they're a fine upstanding person, or that tonight isn't the night they're going to go off the rails.

ttolhurst said:

Personally, if not required by law, I would only notify the officer that I was carrying when I thought it was possible that the fact would come to light without my notification. In that case, I want the officer to learn it from me, in a calm and non-startling manner.

In a simple traffic stop, I would have no reason to notify. If I was asked to get out of the vehicle, I'd notify him at that point.

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I would get out of the vehicle first, then notify once I was out. For a cop, the moment when an armed person gets out of a vehicle is the most tense. For obvious reason (unlocking/operating the door handle) it quite often necessitates the officer losing sight of your hands, and that's not a good place for them. So I like to spare them all that nervous tension by telling them only after I've gotten out of a vehicle.

Whether or not you are obligated by law or you choose to advise it sounds like the best policy. To you officers out there, wouldn't you want to know the speeder you just stopped is carrying??

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Why would it matter? If a person is just a speeder and has no intent to harm you whether or not he is armed is irrelevant. If he is a criminal intent on harming you, he won't tell you anyhow. There is nothing to be gained for either party by interjecting your armed status into the matter. If the officer asks you to step out of the car I WOULD inform at that point but otherwise, no. And before you say I don't know from the officers perspective, yes I do.

If not legally obligated to notify, I don't.

nyrifleman said:

I would get out of the vehicle first, then notify once I was out.

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GET BACK IN THE CAR! GET BACK IN THE CAR!

That's what you'll hear. Turn on an interior light, keep your hands on the wheel, and do as you're told. Cops get VERY nervous when you open your door. They have a small tactical advantage with you confined to the seat, an advantage they don't like to give up.

Whether or not you are obligated by law or you choose to advise it sounds like the best policy. To you officers out there, wouldn't you want to know the speeder you just stopped is carrying??

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In Pennsylvania, there is no duty to inform. As far as I'm concerned, it's none of their business whether I'm carrying or not, especially since I'm being pulled over for a traffic offense and not a violent crime.

What does a pistol have to do with a traffic stop? Not one thing. Oh officer friendy, BTW: I'm married, have 5 kids, I have a large firearms collection at home and I'm even carrying one of the pistols???

That is not why you get stopped for a traffic violation. What Officer friendly wants is a valid drivers license, an insurance card and your current vehicle registration, not conversation.

I'm retired and I have been driving for over 50 years and I have NEVER been asked to get out of my car in a traffic stop, ever.

I know some state patrolmen on a personal basis and a person getting out of the car when just stopped is the last thing they want to see...never get out of your car unless invited to. Just have the stuff they really want available and have your hands where they can see them and they are happy campers.

BTW: I have never been asked about/for my CPL or weapon an a traffic stop, even though, when they run my drivers license, they know I have a CPL, even when they could see my carry. (I normally OC) Totally irrelavent to a traffic stop.

I just talked to a friend who got pulled over twice in the last couple months for speeding (near where hermannr is located, Brewster, WA).

The first stop he volunteered he had a loaded gun and carry permit. The gun was in a soft case sitting on the center console. Cop made him hand over the case and gun, he removed gun, looked it over, put it back in the case. He then asked if it was OK for him to leave the gun on the hood of the truck, permission granted. Cop went back to his car, wrote him up the ticket, returned, handed him the ticket and finally handed him back the gun, have a good day.

The next stop he didn't say anything and was asked nothing concerning the gun.

I asked why he didn't volunteer the information the second time, he said it's because he had already told the cop he was on his way deer hunting and the rifle was clearly visible in the back seat, he figured it was obvious he had guns.

In any event, this friend started rattling off all sort of anecdotal evidence that by informing, there is a slightly reduced chance of getting written up. It didn't work for him but he still believes it and says he will continue to inform.

I have yet to be pulled over since I got my permit so I don't know what I'll do if and when that day comes. As of right now, I'm more inclined to not bring up anything I'm not required to.

I think a whole lot more is going to add up to whether or not you get out of a ticket, and I just don't see handing over a CPL and telling the cop if you have a gun or not as playing a very big part of that.

I think it's almost like some people are trying to say, "Hey, look! We have a lot in common! We are both out here fighting bad guys!"

I'll share one of the anecdotes: a friend of this same friend was pulled over for speeding. He informed. The cop returned to the car with a warning rather than a ticket. Then the story goes that the cop told him he really appreciated the fact that he was informed, that he really appreciates folks who go get their carry permit and play by the rules etc.

So the guy naturally believes the cop cut him a break for the inform. Who knows?

I guess we'd have to ask what is the worse that can happen if a carry permit holder in WA does not inform during a traffic stop? And, if we are to turn on our worst imaginations for an answer, would informing have altered the outcome? I doubt it.

Wow... I guess I never thought about this enough to imagine why there would be an issue. IMO, if I'm stopped by a law officer, it seems to make sense that I'd want to voluntarily, politely, and calmly inform him of a CCW as soon as the opportunity reasonably presents itself.

"Good afternoon, officer. Up front, I just want to tell you that, in accordance with my rights as a CCP-holder, I have a [firearm] located [location]. Please let me know how you'd like to proceed."

Putting myself in the officer's shoes, every stop is a risk. And, should the gun come into the picture later without my disclosure, the tension/alarm is apt to rise much higher much, much faster.

If I'm harassed, I'll take whatever legal recourse I have available to me. But, if I end up dead because Smokey got antsy when he spotted my gun, thought I reached for it, etc, I have substantially reduced my options for settling the matter.