What do I want after a 44 magnum?

a .600 Nitro Express of course

See.

Sounds like you need one of these my friend!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=649532

Big Bore Bug

I've still got it even though this little bugger broke my hand. Magnum Research 500 S&W. Couldn't pick up a milk jug for 3 months. Now with a grip change and gloves it only "mildly" hurts. This was my limit though. I've also got a 12" PC 460 mag that is much less recoil but much more flame. To be honest, I like the 500 in the MR platform better. I've though about buying one in 460 as well. Just like the look of the single action "old west" feel.

A shot from my 460

Big Boomer said:

I've still got it even though this little bugger broke my hand. Magnum Research 500 S&W. Couldn't pick up a milk jug for 3 months. Now with a grip change and gloves it only "mildly" hurts. This was my limit though. I've also got a 12" PC 460 mag that is much less recoil but much more flame. To be honest, I like the 500 in the MR platform better. I've though about buying one in 460 as well. Just like the look of the single action "old west" feel.

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Man that thing is beautiful - I had been thinking I wanted a S&W .500 but you may have just changed my mind. I have to ask, though - broke your hand as in actually broke it? I've fired a few rounds through a S&W and though stout, I didn't feel that I was in any danger of an actual injury.

It's just "funny" that you choose to do it tardily and redundantly...

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No, I felt the need to be a little more specific and add a little more information in correcting your erroneous post. What IS funny is how you put yourself forth as the last word on this subject, yet make such a basic mistake. It's fun, I remember when I was young and uneducated. Nice try at putting it back on me though.

you put yourself forth as the last word on this subject

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I did? How did I do that? I mean, I do understand that if I said "I am the last word on this subject," you might have a point. But you seem to be (again) just creating reasons in your own mind for the things you say, to attempt to justify yourself.

Although, of couse, I understand your need to try to justify what you choose to say. With 56hawk supplying a polite correction, your comments about "trash" and "basic error" and "last word" sure look odd in contrast. How many times now have you said some version of "wrong" or "erroneous"--seems a little excessive considering even your first "wrong" was redundant. In you next response, let's see how many times you mention my terribly egregious error--the one worth all this special attention from you.

I remember when I was young and uneducated.

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I guess I appreciate your sharing your memories with me. Uh, thanks. Does your (I assume) previous "young and uneducated" status have any relevance to your other comments? Is it some excuse?

Nice try at putting it back on me though.

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Your comments are always on you. Believe it or not, I don't control them. Beginning to wonder if anyone does.

Don't sell the S&W 500 short. I've opted for a John Ross custom.

Steve

CraigC said:

If I wanted to shoot 200yds with a handgun, I'd opt for a single shot. Rather than a giant revolver trying to be something it is not.
The .460 is trying to be a rifle cartridge.

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Dude...why are you so angry? Nobody has trashed your opinion and your preferences, but you seem to be dead set on trashing other folk's. Seems to be a norm on internet forums. Folks insecure with their own choices seem to think it's necessary to trash others to validate their own. Seems folks that can't win an argument on facts always end up name calling and belittling. Must boost their egos or something.

CraigC said:

If you think a 200gr at blinding speed is more effective on game than a 430gr at 1350fps, I've got some Arizona swampland you might be interested in.

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So you're saying anyone that does not completely agree with your opinion, is one of those fools born every minute? Must be hard to find a hat that fits....and it must be lonely at the top. Maybe that's where all the anger comes from. I never said a 200 gr at blinding speed is more effective than anything...you're saying that. But what is a .44 shooting a 430gr @ 1350, but a gun trying to be something other than what it was designed for. I prefer heavier bullets also for hunting, but I don't like to use bullets at weights twice the weight the gun was designed for. Lucky for us we all have the freedom to use what we want.

CraigC said:

Muzzle energy is a piss poor measurement of a load's effectiveness on game.

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Not when it's used to compare one load to another. Energy is what drives a bullet thru tissue for penetration. The more energy, the harder it is to stop. Pretty simple. A loads effectiveness also depends on bullet construction along with the velocity and energy. Flatter trajectory means less holdover at longer ranges and less compensation at short range. It also makes small misjudgements in range moot as POI is relatively the same at a larger spread of those distances. For example, your bullet would drop approximately 28 inches or more @ 200 yards. My 240 grainers would drop about 10. No advantage to experts like you, but to fools like me, it is.

CraigC said:

I've been shooting the .44Mag since age 16 and have explored its limits.

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One thing we have in common. Altho I'm sure you've been shooting longer than my 6 decades. Still, I wonder how being so experienced with a .44 makes you such an expert on other firearms that you have little or no experience with. Maybe that comes with the big hat, eh?

Who said anything about being angry??? I simply see the X-frames as an answer to the question no one asked. They are a lot of flash and noise but don't have anything of substance to offer.

Who said anything about a 430gr .44??? That was a .475 reference. If you worship energy, because energy is so velocity-dependent, then obviously you would worship the 200gr load over all others.

What kind of groups are you getting at 200yds with that thing???

Energy is meaningless and we would all be better off if they stopped publishing those numbers. However, I can see that I've stumbled into a hotbed of sixgun masters so I will bow to your collective superior intellect. Maybe I should get me a .460 so I can know everything???

How did I do that?

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You know, the previous thread where you claimed superiority over every gunsmith and expert in the country???

I agree with CraigC. Energy is not the best measurement of performance when it comes to handgun calibers. I use Power Factor to compare handgun loads. It doesn't square the velocity like Energy does. Energy numbers make lightweight, high speed loads look better than slower, heavier loads.

I like my magnum revolvers to shoot the heaviest bullets at 1200-1300 fps so I guess I am biased against lightweight, super high speed handgun loads.

You know, the previous thread

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Well, there we have it, folks. CraigC admitting that his behavior in this thread has nothing to do with my comments in this thread, but instead with a "previous thread". Real high road, Craig. Can I expect you to stalk all of my posts from now on?

Unfortunately, deceit seems your chief stock in trade. In the previous thread, you attacked the very first post I made--even though you had to bend over backward to misinterpret it enough to call it wrong. After that, it's true: I disagreed with you. But I guess, in your disregard for the truth, you've decided that disagreeing with you equates to disagreeing with "every gunsmith and expert in the country". Ego much, there, Craig? But of course, I never claimed such superiority; you just lied to say I did.

Actually, I seem to have caught you in another deception. In that "previous thread", you pretty much admitted that your antagonism toward me was because of yet an earlier thread having to do with rifle scopes, months ago. So, your antagonism seems to predate what you say caused it. I guess I shoud be flattered to have such a devotee.

In sum: you portray yourself as a man who has neither pride nor shame.

Here's a suggestion, Craig. This is the second thread you've derailed because of your personal antagonism of me. To prevent more such derailments, in the interests of THR, why don't you open a thread, "I'm stalking Loosedhorse, even if I have to lie to do it," and concentrate all your efforts there. You ABSOLUTELY have my full permission to list my .454/452 mistake in that thread (put it in General so lots of people see it!), show people how thoroughly and deservedly you trounced me for it, and invite people to laugh themselves silly.

Fair enough?

Sad man.

Who said anything about being angry???

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It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. Craig, your comments about the X-frame revolvers are easily assailed. But as you are not an honest debater, and will only respond to valid points with the likes of "you're claiming superiority over every gunsmith and expert in the country," there's no point in discussing anything with you. Unless other posters agree with you, they get the old Craig special: "you need to go educate yourself."

Speaking of which--how many .460 rounds have you put downrange out of an X-frame? I'm guessing it would have to be a lot, given how many criticisms you have of the round and the gun--and the people who are dumb enough to own and shoot them. And enjoy it. Like me.

The whole "Answer to a question nobody asked" statement bothers me. All you are saying really is It's an answer to a question YOU didn't ask. BIG difference. If it exists and people actually buy it (which they do, and they do in DROVES considering the X frames) Then obviously SOMEONE asked the question. And plenty of people have asked; "How fast can I drive a revolver cartridge?" or "How powerful can I make a production handgun?" or "whats is the most powerful/fastest handgun I can buy?" All are questions people asked, and at different times throughout history, these were a few of the answers, no doubt I am excluding many of them;
45 colt
357 magnum
44 magnum
454 casull
460 S&W
500 S&W
Thompson Center Contender, Encore
I am pleading with the people of the internet to stop using that Erroneous and extremely arrogant statement.

And hows this grab you; Those are all questions I have asked.

You must be more of a man than me. My forth shot with my 44 mag poped the biggest blister on my thumb.

That's not a hand strength issue, it's a grip fit issue. If you are tearing skin or getting cut or raising blisters, you need to look at how the gun fits your hand. Change grips, try different styles, switch to wood if you are getting torn skin and blisters, etc. The right grips make all the difference in the world.

Hmm.... You can load a 500 so it doesn't have as much flash or bang . I specifically use max load H110 cause I want more flash and bang... But you can use min load lil gun or something

sirloop, I and everyone else I know of gets a trace of rubber from the grips in between that area. You can use Jodgdon Tite Group to really reduce noise and recoil in 500s.
Steve

The X-frames are neither fish nor fowl. They are as large and bulky as a single shot specialty pistol, yet are not as accurate and are limited in range. They resemble a revolver until you realize they weigh as much as a Colt Walker and nobody wants to carry one of those on their hip all day. It's funny how serious sixgunners always considered cartridges like the .475 and .500 Linebaugh Longs as interesting in theory but impractical in actual use. Yet the X-frames come along with too much and not enough and the uninitiated think they are the bees knees. That's fine if you want to make noise at the range and impress your friends. For practical purposes, they leave a lot to be desired. As far as how many rounds I've fired downrange, well, a wise man once said "I do not have to lick a turd to know that I do not want to eat it".

As for the rhetoric from Loosedhorse, I'm not even going to respond to such nonsense. Grow up.

Shrinkmd,

If you are a reloader, you may want to look at the 500JRH in the Magnum Research BFR. It has a standard size cylinder (same as 475 or 454) instead of the extra-long cylinder for the 500SW and 45-70. They have a 5-inch shorty version which is a very practical size.

To me if recoil is the quest, you would be handicapping yourself by going to the size and mass of the X-frame. You just have to push more bullet weight with more powder to get the same shooting experience as you would with the 500JRH BFR or a 475L without adding much in terms of effectiveness and giving up a good bit in terms of practicality/carryability.

It goes back to what I was saying earlier about trying to use more caliber in less gun. If the cartridge AND the gun both keep getting bigger, you're just burning more powder.

The intro video of John Linebaugh shooting his .500L on his website is a great illustration. It may be less powerful than an 500SW, but he guides the recoil of the gun just past his face. With a less experienced shooter, that would hit you in the face haha.

The .500JRH is an excellent suggestion! A standard length cartridge that lets you take advantage of the bullet selection for the .500S&W. Packable, usable power in a package light enough to carry on your hip all day.

S&W629 ought to handle 320 grain 44 RM Garrett Cartridges:
But do not use it on a Winchester 94 lever gun: breaks the innards.

Next up on a revolver could be a 454 Casull, but I recommend adding a rifle, since you already have "enough gun" in a revolver: Perhaps a 458 Lott/Winchester Magnum, if you don't mind $80 for a box (20) or can handload, carefully.

Yet the X-frames come along with too much and not enough and the uninitiated think they are the bees knees.

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Again with the "unintitiated" business, eh? It's never enough for you to note that you disagree; you always have to state your additonal opinion that the disagreement is because you're a guru, and X-framers are "uninitiated."

Tell me, if I ever get "initiated", do I get to wear that cool royal gown that you wear?

Speaking of "uninitiated", I'll repeat my question: how many rounds of .460 have you fired from an X-frame, to support your opinion of them?

Hey, it's fine that you don't like X-frames. No one has to. But why the persistent need on your part to call those that like them names?

Perhaps a 458 Lott/Winchester Magnum, if you don't mind $80 for a box (20) or can handload, carefully.

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One heck of a cartridge, and an awfully good suggestion, IMHO (with downsides as specified).

.458 win MSG pistol was on my radar, but it's tapered brass and would need to be trimmed. 500 is easier to reload in that regard, but you lose the .458 bullet selection.

I'll repeat my question: how many rounds of .460 have you fired from an X-frame, to support your opinion of them?

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Like I said..."I do not have to lick a turd to know that I do not want to eat it".

You see, the good Lord granted me the gift of deductive reasoning. I use this gift to determine things that are unsavory without actually having to experience them. You should try it. If I need "more", I'll go up in bullet weight or diameter, not pour on the velocity. So no, I have no need or desire for the .460S&W, or the .454Casull for that matter.

It's never enough for you to note that you disagree; you always have to state your additonal opinion that the disagreement is because you're a guru, and X-framers are "uninitiated."

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To come to this conclusion I use my powers of observation. Which tell me that lots of folks go and buy these things because they make the most noise. Then proceed to spray bullets all over the target at 7yds. Easily lumped in with your average Desert Eagle shooter. Most noise, least proficiency. Personified by S&W's own ridiculous 200yd club.


So what is it exactly that .460 is giving you that you can't get out of a standard cartridge??? Does it kill deer any deader? Are you really taking advantage of its range? How does YOUR gun shoot at 200yds? 100yds? Anything???