Police Searching Homes

bikerdoc said:

There is a judge on scene if a warrant is needed.

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What probable cause do police have to present to the judge for him to sign a warrant? While I feel fairly confident that many citizens would allow the police to come in, and I think that a judge might sign the warrant, it seems that the agencies involved could be opening themselves up for future litigation. Refusal to allow search is not probable cause.

I'm not at all comfortable with what happened in Boston over the search for two young men no matter what they did. Doesn't mean they both shouldn't face the gallows just don't like the way they took over and turned it into an armed camp. What happens if we get a major attack by similar means over a larger area? Martial Law? It was pretty close in Boston.

Didn't say it was 2/3 probability, saying 2/3 scenarios where you deny the officers permission, you could be doing so, with a bad day in store for the cop.

Like the second poster said, your Constitutional rights are protected against "unreasonable" search and seizure. A terrorist man hunt, regardless of what you think you can argue with the swat team at your door, or the local law enforcement, or the feds, will trump your right to denial, at least in a big city like Boston. Feel free to sue afterwards.

Not saying I agree with it, just saying good luck if you live in a state and city with reputation of Massachuesetts and Boston, when it comes to police state tactics.

And hopefully, your guns in hand is the only thing you are doing to ever cause concern to the officers searching, because we are all law abiding citizens until abiding by the law becomes a crime...

I got the impression it was more of a voluntary lockdown that they were convincing the public to follow.

In fact considering it would help to catch someone trying to travel as they would be one of the limited people outside and more likely to get noticed voluntarily staying in could be helpful.

However legally the police shouldn't be able to either search, or to keep people in thier homes because of any two men.
A million people on lockdown over two suspects is pretty bad.
It seemed anyone that actually wants to go out was free to do so. However most places are closed anyways. The city may also be pressuring businesses to cooperate. Those that don't could find problems with permits and other things in the future in such a police state.


Just as home searching is likely voluntary. They come to the door and want to take a look around. With an aggressive and intimidating attitude, presented as for your own safety, they probably would get compliance from most.
However if they are massively searching that huge of an area against thier will, maybe the citizens should insure they do find more explosives. I don't think that is the case though.

Like the second poster said, your Constitutional rights are protected against "unreasonable" search and seizure. A terrorist man hunt, regardless of what you think you can argue with the swat team at your door, or the local law enforcement, or the feds, will trump your right to denial, at least in a big city like Boston. Feel free to sue afterwards.

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And I didn't say you argue with them. They come in uninvited, your rights are protected. If you invite them in, you just waived your rights.

im fortunately not in the "quarantine zone".....but several of my friends are....

ive been talking to them and it doesnt seem like police are forcibly searching everyones homes.....from what i can gather, the police have been more checking up on people and seeing if they are alright and if theyve seen anything, and advising them to stay inside.

as for the "lockdown" given the fact that this guy is running around armed with bombs, most people seem to want to stay inside until the guy is caputred.....im not certain the "in home lockdown" is law enforceable, but many parts of town are declaired active crime sceens and have been taken over by police, which is completely understandable given the circumstances.

How sustainable is this new normal that we seem to be living in? The costs for putting up this kind of an operation are massive and more proof to me that a very small number of terrorists can break this country easier than a frontal invasion by the evil empire.
All those old enough to remember pre 911, what would this Boston situation have looked like before 911.
We now live in a paramilitary state and it is breaking us.

I had to lookup what a "bong" was! Man, I must have missed the drug-addled days of years past. This makes me feel old, and severely uninformed.

I would give permission to police to search the property for a whack-job, with no reservations at all. They would not have permission to come into my home, though. My wife would go ballistic if the officers left muddy boot prints on the carpet. They'd have to call-in backup if that happened.

How sustainable is this new normal that we seem to be living in? The costs for putting up this kind of an operation are massive and more proof to me that a very small number of terrorists can break this country easier than a frontal invasion by the evil empire.
All those old enough to remember pre 911, what would this Boston situation have looked like before 911.
We now live in a paramilitary state and it is breaking us.

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honestly, what would you're alternatives be?.....pre 911 youd most likely have a hand full of cops maybe armed with shotguns, an ar15 if they are lucky......

the facts are, we had 2 heavily armed men on the loose after bombing a city, killing 3 people, 2 cops, and injuring hundreds others.....not something your average cop is trained to deal with.

honestly, ide rather have the swat team roll in and deal with it properly.

And I didn't say you argue with them. They come in uninvited, your rights are protected. If you invite them in, you just waived your rights.

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I see what you are saying now, and agreed.

I like this thread. I was wondering the same thing, because I wouldn't appreciate cops coming in my house for any reason. Not that I have anything to hide, but They don't need to look around my house for me to tell them that the suspect isn't here. If they get a warrant, well then I guess my house will get flipped and I am b-ned.

"Between me, my wife, my guns and my dogs, I think I've got it covered, officer. You can search the grounds, but this house is clear. Have a nice day and good luck, hope you find the punk"

your options are pretty limited most of the time anyway when the king's men want something. even more so in this kind of situation.

Onward Allusion said:

I was thinking of the same question. So, what if some schmuck lets the cops in to do a search and he's in the middle of cleaning his AR/AK's or just have his toys out??? I can't imagine a good outcome for the guy consenting to a search. At the very least, the schmuck will be tied up for hours if not days or weeks trying to convince the authorities that he's a harmless gun collector/sportsman.

So, to all you boys and girls out there - think three times before letting cops into your home without a warrant.

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Depends on the state and local laws there. If his ownership is lawful, no problem. Possibly get detained briefly. When they're chasing someone who's been on a bombing, shooting and grenade spree, this doesn't seem excessive.

YMMV

I'll give the Boston-area cops this: They don't seem to have shot anyone who was innocent. So, better than L.A. right there.

Are you serious? You know any evidence a police officer sees that a law is being broken, when they have been invited into your home, is perfectly admissible as evidence against you.

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I'm aware of that. All I meant was that they're not going to stop the manhunt for an armed terrorist to arrest you for a minor infraction.
Of course, I guess nothing would stop them from making a mental note of where you are and come back later.

As a former police supervisor, then a watch commander I ran crews on the street for a few years. I can tell you without equivocation that any of my guys (or gals) that even considered making some arrest for anything other than the job at hand (hunting dangerous types with a proven record of very bad actions....) while doing house to house searches.... would have had a very serious problem with me, period.

That's one of the reasons I always preferred recruits with military experience if I had a choice in the matter .... The instructions would be very simple and clear about what was expected - and unless an officer trips over someone like "Hannibal Lecter" doing something really bad... they'd only be going after the terrs, period. Veterans as a group are more disciplined and task oriented than any young individual fresh out of college. That was my experience in 22 years on the job. Still, glad I'm out of that line of work.

I was amazed that they were actually able to take down the younger brother alive... that's some very professional stuff since you know every badge wanted another outcome...

I am not so sure about veterans with combat experience being cops although they are turning this country into bagdad. what has to be looked at is the waste of hundreds of billions of dollars spent on homeland security. they could not protect you from getting poisin ivy. they should be disbanded and forced to give up their tanks machine guns grenades drones submarines etc

Many people are probably letting them in, and I can't say anything about this one for sure, but I know for a fact that in the LA case, (bear mountain, believe it was) the police openly admitted to searching empty cabins, which means no permission was given, and certainly, a warrant for every cabin in an area is far from reasonable.


I was also hearing on the radio things about "police are now allowing people out of their homes" or "police are allowing people back into their homes", depending on the situation, and many of the media reports sure made it seem like many people were forcibly evacuated.



And I want to point out that this guy was found by a homeowner, not by the police, and he was found by this homeowner only after this lockdown was lifted, according to what I heard on the radio at work.


BTW, how do cops in a city teeming with tens of thousands of LEO get in a gun fight with two guys, and then lose them? Honestly, what kind of ineptitude is that? These are the guys we let run around with machine guns?

Thanks Sam. Sorry about that.

Very interesting thread and concept. I will get to reading.


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As a former police supervisor, then a watch commander I ran crews on the street for a few years. I can tell you without equivocation that any of my guys (or gals) that even considered making some arrest for anything other than the job at hand (hunting dangerous types with a proven record of very bad actions....) while doing house to house searches.... would have had a very serious problem with me, period.

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Seems to me that a judge would, or should, as well, whether or not permission was given under circumstances such as in Boston after the bombing.

Many people are probably letting them in, and I can't say anything about this one for sure, but I know for a fact that in the LA case, (bear mountain, believe it was) the police openly admitted to searching empty cabins, which means no permission was given, and certainly, a warrant for every cabin in an area is far from reasonable.

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the police werent going door to door searching every house room by room............they were going door to door to check up on people, advising them to stay inside and if they had seen anything.

to the best of my knowledge, the police only searched the suspects home, and the home of a neighbor who left his doors open......

BTW, how do cops in a city teeming with tens of thousands of LEO get in a gun fight with two guys, and then lose them? Honestly, what kind of ineptitude is that? These are the guys we let run around with machine guns?

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when those thousands of LEO have to secure damn near 1/4 of the state......and when those 2 suspects are throwing pipe bombs at you......and when the cops have to tend to their wounded, as well as take into custody the one bomber who later died......

its pretty understandable how 1 guy could slip away.

Geez... this "terrorism" stuff really has some people tripping over themselves to throw away their Constitutional protections to get a little DHS "safety".

Don't be a coward. No warrant, no search... exigent circumstances my backside. Unless they SEE the suspect enter your house, they have no reason to force their way in.

Geez... this "terrorism" stuff really has some people tripping over themselves to throw away their Constitutional protections to get a little DHS "safety".

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"terrorism"....?

Another former big city cop here and another opinion you probably won't like, but really? You think the hundreds of officers out there looking for a terrorist who has already killed civilians, including a child and a cop, are going to stop and worry about your marijuana? I know - there's always that one guy - but we need some common sense to factor in here. I'll even admit to some probable borderline searches (I worked SWAT for four years and Homicide for 16) but was acting on the information known at that moment, and the purpose was the protection of others or the apprehension of a suspect who was violently dangerous.

And yes - I did encounter scenarios where the bad guy was in the house and threatening a family member of the home owner. It's a very real and probable scenario and those cops at the door don't know you or your abilities.

Those cops in Boston were out there to protect and apprehend, and we should all be glad there are still those who put themselves between you and the bad guys...

M-Cameron said:

the police werent going door to door searching every house room by room............they were going door to door to check up on people, advising them to stay inside and if they had seen anything.

to the best of my knowledge, the police only searched the suspects home, and the home of a neighbor who left his doors open......

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The quote was something to the effect of "We are searching house to house, door to door, closet by closet."

Then, the next day, something about "we have almost finished searching all of the empty cabins in the area."


You can live in your fantasy land, where the police don't violate our rights like this, but this is reality. They are doing it.


We are watching the death knell American liberty, and it is greeted with cheers and adulation from those who want the illusion of safety.