I had considered getting a Cimarron Frontier or Outlaw in 7.5 in .45 LC. However, .45 ammo is hard to find and is expensive. I am active duty military and am not a reloader at this time due to continual moves/deployments. Therefore, it seems that .357/.38 SPL is the most affordable/practical option for off the shelf ammo. How does .357 cowboy ammo compare to .45 LC in terms of knockdown power/recoil?
.357/.38 SPL for cowboy action pistol?
- Thread starter DavidB2
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BSA1
member
For Cowboy Action Shooting you use low powered aka "mouse fart" loads. 38 Spl. is plenty powerful enough for CAS.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
According to the rules of CAS, you must use lead bullets only.
That rules out all but a very small percentage of .357 Magnum ammo.
Here are some.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/...357-mag-158-grain-lfn-50-rounds.aspx?a=453964
But notice the .357 load is faster, louder, and carries almost twice the energy of any of the other caliber cowboy loads.
You need the .38 Spl.
All the bullet has to do in CAS is make it 20-25 feet to the target and go 'ding' or 'plink' against the steel targets when it gets there loud enough the scorer can hear it.
You don't generally have to knock them down.
rc
That rules out all but a very small percentage of .357 Magnum ammo.
Here are some.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/...357-mag-158-grain-lfn-50-rounds.aspx?a=453964
But notice the .357 load is faster, louder, and carries almost twice the energy of any of the other caliber cowboy loads.
You need the .38 Spl.
All the bullet has to do in CAS is make it 20-25 feet to the target and go 'ding' or 'plink' against the steel targets when it gets there loud enough the scorer can hear it.
You don't generally have to knock them down.
rc
Crunchy Frog
Member
Please, not the "mouse fart" bit again. I've never heard that term used by anyone who actually SHOOTS cowboy action.
SASS rules limit pistol ammo to a maximum of 1000 fps. This is because we shoot steel targets at relatively close range. Lead bullets in the proper velocity range with fragment or flatten instead of bouncing back. Hotter loads also ruin the targets.
You do know that you can shoot .38 Special ammo in a .357 revolver, right? The .38 caliber is the most popular in cowboy action shooting. It's less expensive to feed.
SASS rules limit pistol ammo to a maximum of 1000 fps. This is because we shoot steel targets at relatively close range. Lead bullets in the proper velocity range with fragment or flatten instead of bouncing back. Hotter loads also ruin the targets.
You do know that you can shoot .38 Special ammo in a .357 revolver, right? The .38 caliber is the most popular in cowboy action shooting. It's less expensive to feed.
EVIL
Member
I say get a Ruger new vaquero chambered in .357 Mag. It's a great deal for a "modern" SA pistol. You can shoot the .38 SPL loading in it for SASS matches. However, factory .38 SPL isn't exactly easy on the wallet. The last decently priced box I found locally (FMJ not LRN) was $22/50 - and you are going to have difficult time finding LRNs. The factory loads are hotter than you need too. I'd say reloading .38 spl is pretty much a pre-requisite to CAS.
BY comparison you can reload once fired brass for about $7-8/box of 50 when you buy inexpensive bullets online. (less if you cast your own) I know you are worried about reloading on active duty, but if you buy small amounts of propellants & primers at a time if you can use them up if you are "lucky" enough to get stationed overseas. I used to leave stuff like extra propellants and standard capacity magazines at my parents house when i got stationed in places like CA. I also "Babysat" guns, ammo and reloading gear for buddies deploying overseas in my safe.
I started reloading my last few years on active duty and wish i started way earlier, but I had the same concerns as you. They turned out to be unfounded.
BY comparison you can reload once fired brass for about $7-8/box of 50 when you buy inexpensive bullets online. (less if you cast your own) I know you are worried about reloading on active duty, but if you buy small amounts of propellants & primers at a time if you can use them up if you are "lucky" enough to get stationed overseas. I used to leave stuff like extra propellants and standard capacity magazines at my parents house when i got stationed in places like CA. I also "Babysat" guns, ammo and reloading gear for buddies deploying overseas in my safe.
I started reloading my last few years on active duty and wish i started way earlier, but I had the same concerns as you. They turned out to be unfounded.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
+1!
.38 bore Colt SAA's just don't feel right to me due to the extra weight, in all the wrong places!!
rc
.38 bore Colt SAA's just don't feel right to me due to the extra weight, in all the wrong places!!
rc
BCRider
Member
Although I went .38 due to already having and reloading for a bevy of S&W's I do agree that the gun is heavier due to the thicker walls of the cylinder and barrel. After schlepping my guns around holding the same size gun in .45 with no ammo in it feels downright "airy".
Crunchy Frog, I shoot Cowboy Action and call the ammo we use "mouse fart loads" all the time.... And in the case of the "gamers" it most certainly is mouse fart'y....
A light 110 or 130 gn bullet loafing along at the minimum 600fps called for by the rules sounds and likely feels like shooting a .22LR revolver.
Crunchy Frog, I shoot Cowboy Action and call the ammo we use "mouse fart loads" all the time.... And in the case of the "gamers" it most certainly is mouse fart'y....
A light 110 or 130 gn bullet loafing along at the minimum 600fps called for by the rules sounds and likely feels like shooting a .22LR revolver.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I bought a set of Ruger New Vaqueros for Cowboy Action shoots in 38/357. I load a 125gr LRN bullet on the light side and that works well for me. (but I also load my own ammo)
I agree you should buy revolvers in 38/357 because buying 45 Colt ammo is way too expensive compared to .38 Specials. It's too bad because carrying and shooting 45 Colt ammo at a shoot is just too cool!
I agree you should buy revolvers in 38/357 because buying 45 Colt ammo is way too expensive compared to .38 Specials. It's too bad because carrying and shooting 45 Colt ammo at a shoot is just too cool!
royal barnes
Member
BSA1, Crank off a couple of my 200 grain, full case black powder .44-40's and then talk about mouse phart loads.
hAkron
Member
If you ever plan to reload, .38 special is one of the more economical cartridges to load and represents a clear savings over factory ammo.
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
Active Cowboy Action Shooter here. Yes, 38 Special has become more common these days as a pistol round than 45 Colt. A variety of reasons, mostly cost and recoil.
Your question was specifically about 357 Cowboy loads compared to 45 Colt. I don't know anybody who buys 357 Cowboy loads. All the 38 shooters I know use 38 Special cowboy loads. If you buy 357 Cowboy loads, they will by definition be legal for CAS, ie lead bullets and muzzle velocity below 1000 fps. However everybody I know who uses a 357Mag/38Sp revolver in CAS loads it with 38s. When I shag brass I will sometimes find some 357s on the ground. There are a few who hand load 357 Mag down to CAS specs, in order to avoid carbon ring buildup in the chambers, but that is easy enough to scrub out every few matches or so.
Yes, a 357 Mag SAA replica will weigh more than the same model and barrel length chambered for 45 Colt because of the size of the holes. Most of my CAS revolvers are chambered for 45 Colt, but I have a couple of New Vaqueros chambered for 357 Mag/38 SP and they are indeed heavy. It is up to the individual shooter whether or not he likes the balance of the heavier gun.
Yes, I know plenty of CAS shooters who use the term 'mouse fart'. Generally it is only used among friends with gentle ribbing about how light somebody's loads are. If one is not careful, it can be taken as an insult.
Yes, my 45 Colt loads are stuffed to the gills with Black Powder and they are not mouse fart loads.
Active Cowboy Action Shooter here. Yes, 38 Special has become more common these days as a pistol round than 45 Colt. A variety of reasons, mostly cost and recoil.
Your question was specifically about 357 Cowboy loads compared to 45 Colt. I don't know anybody who buys 357 Cowboy loads. All the 38 shooters I know use 38 Special cowboy loads. If you buy 357 Cowboy loads, they will by definition be legal for CAS, ie lead bullets and muzzle velocity below 1000 fps. However everybody I know who uses a 357Mag/38Sp revolver in CAS loads it with 38s. When I shag brass I will sometimes find some 357s on the ground. There are a few who hand load 357 Mag down to CAS specs, in order to avoid carbon ring buildup in the chambers, but that is easy enough to scrub out every few matches or so.
Yes, a 357 Mag SAA replica will weigh more than the same model and barrel length chambered for 45 Colt because of the size of the holes. Most of my CAS revolvers are chambered for 45 Colt, but I have a couple of New Vaqueros chambered for 357 Mag/38 SP and they are indeed heavy. It is up to the individual shooter whether or not he likes the balance of the heavier gun.
Yes, I know plenty of CAS shooters who use the term 'mouse fart'. Generally it is only used among friends with gentle ribbing about how light somebody's loads are. If one is not careful, it can be taken as an insult.
Yes, my 45 Colt loads are stuffed to the gills with Black Powder and they are not mouse fart loads.
bugsbunny45
Member
If you really look hard you can find .45LC at good prices. I am into CAS and have .45 and 38/357 Stainless Rugers.
Ammoseek is a great place to find cheap ammo. 38 is cheaper but dont let the cost of .45LC scare you away and if you reload the price reallly drops
Ammoseek is a great place to find cheap ammo. 38 is cheaper but dont let the cost of .45LC scare you away and if you reload the price reallly drops
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I also own a Ruger Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt and even though I do reload for it the .45 Colt reloads still cost 50% more to load than .38 Specials do. Since 2008 and especially since 2012 with the higher component costs 250gr .452" bullets cost almost twice what 125gr .358" bullets cost. That increase in price adds a little more than 50% to the final price of the reloads.
A box of 50 125gr LNR .38 Special ammo costs me $5.28 to load and a box of 50 250gr LRN .45 Colt ammo costs me $7.84 to load. (at current component prices) Sure, it's still a lot less than buying factory ammo but 50% more is still 50% more and when you're shooting many hundreds of rounds a weekend and add in practice the costs add up quickly. (just over $50 more a week for 45 Colt ammo)
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