What did Hemingway carry?

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9thchild

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Any Hemingway buffs out there familiar with Islands in the Stream and Under Kilimanjaro (or True at First Light if you prefer)?

In those books he talks about carrying a .357 Magnum revolver in a holster on his thigh. In Part III of Islands, he uses it to kill a crab.

I have searched all over the internet and there is no conclusive answer, though some believe it was a S&W. I know there is a book out there all about Hemingway's gun collection but it has mediocre reviews and it may not even answer my question.

He also mentions a revolver being on the boat w/ his Tommy gun in To Have and Have Not, but I believe it was a .38.
 
I have no idea, but this is one of the best thread titles I have seen on THR. Hemingway and revolvers. What is more American than that?
 
Does anyone doubt that if you used a full house .357 Magnum on a crab, particularly the hot loads of the day, say 158 Semi Wadcutter at 1500 FPS...dinner would look like nothing more than a pink vapor cloud?
 
He was reported to find sport in using a Thompson SMG to shoot sharks in the Carribean.
He used it to ward off sharks. Often it would simply lead to more sharks swarming to the shed blood.

I think Thomas Hudson shot the crab because it stood its ground, not so he could eat it.
 
At the time of writing, the gun was almost certainly a S&W .357 Magnum, which later became the Modlel 27. Very few other guns were than made for that load. Colt had a couple, but they seem uncommon in that caliber.

Some years ago, "Guns" published a photo of a Colt .22 Woodsman pistol owned by Hemingway. If memory serves, it was a prewar gun.

In the personal account of his safari to Kenya, he used a Springfield .30/06 sporter, I think by Griffin & Howe? I'm pretty sure about the Springfield and I think he had a Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine, probably a 6.5mm. Don't know about his other guns.

When John Hunter mentioned an American client who favored the .357 revolver, it would also have almost had to be a S&W. That was what was made then.

This is a good topic, and doesn't deserve the snide comments being made by some. Hemingway's end was tragic, but he was a good author, and his guns are worth knowing about.

I think Robert Ruark was a better writer in this style, and his guns are mentioned in his, "Horn of the Hunter." He was also Playboy's Travel Editor and had a splendid story in their April, 1965 issue, I believe, on safari and which guns and other gear to take. There were large color photos.
 
Great post Lone Star. I have been ignoring the rude comments. Ernest certainly had his vices, but his legacy far outweighs any personal habits some on this board may not agree with.

Much of my interest in the outdoors, a more simple life, and hunting stems from studying the vast Hemingway library.

Once I am finished reading whatever Hemingway I can get my hands on I plan to explore Robert Ruark.

What are the odds that it was not a S&W and in fact a Colt? I need to go back to the passages in Islands in the Stream to see how else he describes the revolver. You are dead on about the rifles he carried on safari. I believe one of his gun bearers also carried some version of a Lee Enfield. In Green Hills of Africa Hemingway repeatedly refers to it simply as the ".303" if my memory serves me.
 
If you click on the "Look Inside" feature on the book in the above Amazon link, you'll see the table of contents. It doesn't mention a Smith & Wesson, but it appears to have chapters on specific guns, i.e. "The Browning Superposed" and "Three (Four?) Colt Woodsman Pistols".
 
Hemingway and handguns

Hemingway owned a six-inch Match Target Colt Woodsman that he often kept on his boat. He had an accident with it, which two of his biographers mention with different versions of the story. Characters in his novels carried interesting handguns, the Luger in for Whom the Bell Tolls and the Smith & Wesson .357 in Islands in the Stream. I don't know that Hemingway ever personally owned either weapon, and he didn't typically carry a handgun of any kind on his person. He was more of a long arm man. As a war correspondent, he reached Paris before the allied forces in World War II, and he managed to take out a commode in the Ritz with a Thompson.
 
Both Islands in the Stream and True at First Light began their lives in the early fifties, from what I remember. That being the case, it seems most likely that he'd have been carrying an S&W Pre-27. Hemingway being fairly well-to-do at the time, it might also have been a Registered Magnum. They probably hadn't all been scarfed up by collectors at that point.

It's also possible that it was a Colt of some sort. This was still a couple of years before the snakes hatched, so it wouldn't have been a Python. Colt did make a handful of their New Service in .357, and were just introducing their ".357," a medium frame Magnum, akin to the K-Frame Smith Magnums, like the Model 19 which came out a few years later.
 
In the personal account of his safari to Kenya, he used a Springfield .30/06 sporter, I think by Griffin & Howe? I'm pretty sure about the Springfield and I think he had a Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine, probably a 6.5mm. Don't know about his other guns.

He also mentioned a "heavy," presumably a double rifle of some sort, which caused him considerable trouble. Between the poor trigger pull, "like the last half inch of a sardine can opening," and the unaccustomed heavy recoil, he made a bad shot on a buffalo, and wound up tracking it into nasty thick stuff, before getting too scared to go on and backing out, IIRC.
 
He [Ruark] was also Playboy's Travel Editor and had a splendid story in their April, 1965 issue, I believe, on safari and which guns and other gear to take. There were large color photos.

Large color photos? In Playboy?
 
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Great post Lone Star. I have been ignoring the rude comments. Ernest certainly had his vices, but his legacy far outweighs any personal habits some on this board may not agree with.

Much of my interest in the outdoors, a more simple life, and hunting stems from studying the vast Hemingway library.

Once I am finished reading whatever Hemingway I can get my hands on I plan to explore Robert Ruark.

+1

I don't think too many of us here have won the Nobel Prize for literature for our writing ... Ernest Hemmingway was a complex man that packed more adventure in his short life than most of us would see in a hundred lifetimes. ...and he took the time to write it all down, despite many personal & professional setbacks. He was one of the greatest Americans of all time & perhaps the greatest American author. He was largely responsible for re-defining the role of the modern, masculine American man & revitalizing his spirit in the 20th century. His father also suffered from clinical depression & committed suicide. Ernest Hemmingway's suicide was a tragedy a sad end to spectacular man.

Also, if you like Roark, give Capstick a chance as well --- a great safari writer.
 
9th Child-

Thanks. I believe that if you read Ruark's African novels, you'll find that he easily eclipses Hemingway. I think he hunted mainly quail in the Carolinas before his first safari about 1952-53. I have, "Horn of the Hunter", and it dates from that period. His then-wife Virginia went with him and seemed to enjoy it. His admiration for their white hunter Harry Selby made Selby famous, and he and Ruark became good friends. Selby and other Kenya whites opened the book on Mau-Mau to Ruark, and the details of their oathing ceremonies in, "Something of Value" are very authentic, although disgusting. His sources were police discoveries and the personal accounts of white hunters who took time off as police reservists and stalked Mau-Mau terrorists on their own grounds, often deep in the Aberdare forests around Mt. Kenya. This is a compelling book that will forever change the way you view African politicians. But it is also the story of the settlers in Kenya and their way of life and a wonderful study of wlld animals and how some were hunted then.

The sequels, "Uhuru!" and, "The Honey Badger" are also excellent and are well worth seeking out. Some libraries may still have copies, or Amazon and other Online sources sell them. The public has forgotten these bestsellers and prices are usually not high.

Ruark was also a Naval officer in WW II and esorted convoys across the Atlantic, braving horrible weather and U-boat packs to bring supplies to beleagured Britain. He spent time in London, and this led to his short story, "Sheila" in, "Playboy". I won't spoil it for you, in case you can find a copy of that issue and read it. But it's a danged good wartime romance that will leave you sad and informed.

BTW, he had some experience of divorce that led him to compare modern Americn women to the savage honey badger/ratel. He said that a furious honey badger is like an angry woman in that she/it aims straight for the male groin. He also authored a series of newspaper columns that were combined in a book, "Women."

He had great powers of observation and a droll sense of humor. I think you'll like him. He used basically a better version of Hemingway's style and was frankly a better writer, I believe.

Also of interest if you read, "Something of Value" (which is far better than the pretty good movie starring Rock Hudson) is, "Man-Hunt in Kenya", by Inspector Ian Henderson, GM. This describes Mau-Mau, in particular the intense hunt for a terrorist leader named Dedan Kimathi, who strangled and otherwise murdered a great many people. Henderson created gangs of pseudo terrorists who he turned from their Mau-Mau paths and led back into the forests after their own kind. He was awarded the coveted George Medal for his gallantry.

I think the odds of Hemingway having a .357 Colt are slim, although possible. The S&W pre-27 is far more likely. His .303 was almost surely a sporter based on the Lee-Enfield action. This is normally what people meant then when they say they hunted with a .303. BSA and even the famous London "Best" makers turned these out, some built on Lee-Metford and Lee-Enfield cavalry carbine actions. You can spot those, because they had the bolt handle flattened, probably to make them lie trimmer in a saddle scabbard. Others had conventional bolt handles, and some were supplied with five-shot magazines, although many would also still take the ten-round military magazine. The latter was a good thing to have if facing hostile natives or a pride of lions. John Alfred Jordan and many other early African hunters used these .303 sporters as light rifles. Many were sighted for the later (post-1907) MK VII load, with a higher velocity 174 grain bullet. Softnosed hunting ammo was available as well as surplus military "ball." These were very good for most game up to and (under ideal conditions) including large antelopes, and many lion and other dangerous animals were killed with .303's, although heavier rifles were preferred for really big game. It was often cheaper to buy a Lee sporter than a Mauser-actioned one, and that appealed to many settlers and occasional hunters. W.D.M. Bell used a .303 as well as a 6.5mm Mannlicher and a .318 Westley Riichards before settling largely on his famed .275 Rigby for hunting elephants! He also killed a lot of antelope for camp meat, and buffalo, etc. He did use heavy rifles, but found them not to be any real advantage and they were heavy and the ammo was very expensive.

One must realize that Bell was a superb marksman who studied the anatomy of his prey in great detail. He also hunted largely undisturbed elephant herds, very unlike modern conditions.

If Hemingway was your outdoor inspiration, there are many better authors for that role. This is especially true of authors on hunting in Africa and India. In recent times, I can recommend the books and videos by Peter Hathaway Capstick. Peter was as drolly humorous in person as he was in print. I once sent him a cartoon showing two hyenas outside a safari tent. A sign by the tent read, The Millers. One hyena said to the other, "It's Miller time!" Peter loved it and thanked me on one of those blue fold-up letters that came with a colorful South African stamp. I saved it in one of his books. In a review, I called him, "the principal chronicler of safari lore today", a comment quoted in the blurbs in the paperback edition of, "Death in the Silent Places." His untimely death came while under open heart surgery in Pretoria, not from a lion or snake in the bush. We are poorer for his loss.

If Hemingway let a wounded buffalo escape, that is not acceptable behavior for a hunter in Africa. Normally, if the client lacks the courage or the skill to follow up a wounded animal, his white hunter is obligated to get it. Wasn't his hunter Phillip Percival, who took out Theodore Roosevelt about 1909? BTW, for PC reasons, a white hunter is now known as a professional hunter. Tony Dyer (Maybe Brian Hearne ?) wrote a good book about the lives of several. Those guys and Jim Corbett and Dr. Roy C. Andrews were my boyhood heroes. I never gave a fig for football stars. Still don't. Once I've seen the cheerleader calendars, that's my football for the season... And I admire many military heroes, past and present.

You don't have to read everything that Hemingway wrote to begin reading Ruark. Hunt up his best books now. I think you'll be very glad that you did. Oh: Ruark mentions some of his rifles in books and he also had some like those that his characters owned. As for pistols, he got away from the Navy with his .45 auto and a typewriter. He was later billed for both, and paid. He must have really wanted to keep the .45! And in an article, he told of shooting a German in an Italian alley with a P-38 that he'd acquired somehow. I don't know why a Naval officer was fighting on the ground in Italy. Ruark ended the war in the Pacific. He began his literary career while in the Navy, telling of his experiences and of harrowing convoy duty when the sub packs were still very active. He had been in newspapers before the war. (Hemingway said that newspaper work would not hurt a young writer...as long as he got out of it soon enough! I agree. After publishing about 4,000 magazine and newspaper articles, I am now working on my first novel, and the styles of writing are quite different.
 
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Evil-

Great post! You may also want to read Mariel Hemingway's accounts of how suicide ran in her family. I believe that her sister also committed suicide. (Margaux, a fine actress and model. She and Mariel were in, Lipstick" together and Mariel was also in, "Personal Best" and other films. She played the ill-fated Dorothy Stratten in one of the film versions of her life, "Star 80." I think Jamie Lee Curtis did another version. I think Mariel is now a yoga instructor. Her bio is fascinating. I turned it back into the library, and don't recall the title, but it should certainly be easy to Search.)

BTW, you misspelled "Ruark". It's not "Roark". Some families do use the latter spelling, but not his. Bob R. was a major syndicated columnist as well as one of the best selling authors of his time.
 
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