destroyed my springfield, now what?

you know the problem i have with owning so many rifles is how easy it is to end up with a bunch of rifles of cartridges you really dont have any major need to buy or reload for..so i like having the greatest number of rifles in the fewest number of cartridges so i only have to stock pile a few.. you know, maybe the best cartridge in my opinion for the given class of firearm

that said, i wonder why the OP doesnt want .30-06 anymore?, was he looking for something for less recoil, did he actually want a greater variety of rifles in different calibers? it may be easier to give advice if we knew what issues he has with .30-06 before that makes him want to change to better determine better options of something he could switch to

jason41987 said:

see what i mean?.. 223 works fine for deer, i cant understand where everyone has this assumption that its bad for it.. why? because its not a massive large cartridge or a giant projectile... psh, use a hunting bullet like you would on anything else and no one ive personally known who uses it has had it fail.. .. remember, 100 years ago so they were usiing handgun cartridges with a high success rate.. so i may hunt with 5.45x39 next year

Click to expand...

Yes, .22 centerfires will work, but need to be used under ideal conditions such as no deep angle shots, etc., and I'm telling this as someone who's killed a dozen or so deer over the last 30 years with .22 centerfires of various sorts, mostly a 220 Swift though.

20+ years ago cartridges like the .223 were considered medium range varmint cartridges. They've only become popular in the field due to peoples infatuation with the AR platform. Oh yeah, I think my signature below just about sums this up.

35W

There are plenty of good and accurate rifles on there these days for ~$400.

My two main bolt action hunting rifles are both Howa 1500 rifles. One is in 30-06 and the other in .223. Both are extremely accurate.

Another good suggestion for under $400 is the Ruger American. I would go in 30-06 there too.

If I wanted a new rifle, and I do. I just bought a Ruger 77/44, but nevertheless. If I wanted a 200 yard rifle that would kill deer, and .22 caliber was legal in the state I am from. I'd go with a .22-250 in a Ruger American, Marlin XL7/XS7, or some other sub $400 bolt gun.

You'd have a good gun that'd have very little recoil. It will also drop deer and elk like a ton of bricks. As well as pig/hogs, coyote, ground squirrels, foxes, bobcats, crows, or whatever you decide to shoot at. And it will do it at ranges past 200 yards.
I know people who use a .22-250 in Arkansas, and they have very, very good success rate on broadside or angled shots using 55 grain Winchester Power Points, and others load the 64 grain Power Point from Winchester. Those little pills are moving, and they do a good job.

My second choice would be a .25-06 Marlin XL7, which I own, and put a Boyd's laminated stock to add some weight. Now it was an ugly gun, but shot really well with the plastic stock, but that Boyd's laminated pepper stock with a 700 comb is just beautiful. And the added weight makes the gun feel like it doesn't have any recoil. Just jumps a little. It loves 115 grain Combined Technology Ballistic Tips moving anywhere from 2850 to 3000 fps. With the 22" barrel you get 2875 fps average @ 15 feet from the muzzle using IMR 4350.

1) .22-250 (only above the .25-06 because of recoil needs you may or may not have mentioned)
2) .25-06
3) 260 Remington or .257 Roberts
4) 6.5 x 55
5) 270 Win

Any major American gun manufacturer will have a bolt gun with a scope combo in your price range in one of those calibers.


While I like the .223 a lot. A bunch to be exact. Two hundred yards to me is a little bit of a stretch for a 150 lbs deer. That is where the .22-250 comes in. Solves that problem.

The reason my new rifle is a .44 Magnum is because of children starting to hunt, and I have a .25-06 bolt and others that kills deer far away.

Stay w/ 30.06

First of all, what was the damage of the 1903 and is the a "smoking gun" as to what caused it.
These old rifles have a history of some bad bolts that didn't get hardened properly and tend to disintegrate or shatter when fired.
Or was it determined that it was from a hot load or loader error?

Either way you have already purchased a new gun by this time.
Personally...I love the 30.06 for its versatility in a range of bullets and its easy access in ammo as it is still a popular caliber.
Many good manufacturers, Remington, Ruger, Savage etc...all with inexpensive models and good quality.
You have the dies for reloading, why start a new platform?
Live and learn from your lost rifle and be safe.
Pay attention to detail with every round.

35 Whelen said:

... 20+ years ago cartridges like the .223 were considered medium range varmint cartridges. They've only become popular in the field due to peoples infatuation with the AR platform.

Click to expand...

At the risk of inducing a bit of thread drift, I have to ask...

Is there nothing to be said of the current production of heavier, tougher .224 bullets, or the rifle manufacturers decisions to add more twist in modern 223 barrels to allow their use? Things change, and we must allow ourselves the freedom to change with them. Heck, 20+ years ago, we wouldn't/couldn't even be having this discussion, because the Internet as we now know it didn't even exist. Would you also assert that it's inappropriate to have this conversation on a modern Internet forum, and that we should limit such conversations to occasions where we can sit down face-to-face over a cup of coffee - because that's the way it was done 20+ years ago?

Still, I do understand the basis of your concern regarding the 223. Even today, although there's only a small difference in velocity between the 223 and the 222, I wouldn't take any shot at a deer with my 222 because its twist rate limits it to lighter, more frangible bullets more appropriate for varmints. But, assuming an appropriate twist rate is used, I wouldn't have any hesitation shooting deer at reasonable ranges with a 223, provided I was using one of the modern, more heavily constructed bullets currently available (60gr partitions, or 64gr bonded solid base bullets from Nosler, 62 or 75gr Swift Scirocco's, and a few different Barnes bullets come to mind).

@ ngnrd,
I'll drift and give you my answer. I have agreed that the .223 is a good dear round, but there are better/faster killing rounds available.
I hunted with .223 for whitetail in S. AR. where a 190 lbs deer was huge, and the most common were 90 - 140 pound deer. I used 55 grain soft points from a 20" AR 15. Most shots were 60 yards or less, and the 55 grain soft point was plenty. No need to bump up to 64 grain or larger bullets. I have a recovered 55 grain soft point that expanded and drove through the right chest of the deer and was stuck in the left leg pit of the deer.

Now I know what you're saying I think, and that is we can have deeper penetration with heavier, longer low drag bullets, and I believe that to be true, but most of those bullets are designed to shoot matches and not animals.
Also, if shooting a deer at 200 yards with a .223 is legal then using a .22 Magnum under 100 yards should be as well IMO. At 200 yards + I think that you are going to be equivilent to shooting a .22 Magnum with 40 grain solids at 75 yards. Which would be my preferred deer rifle because they are accurate, have zero recoil, and low noise, but that isn't legal so I don't do it. Another thing. The .223 out of a 20" AR15 destroyed so much meat with a 55 grain soft point I went back to taking the 30-30, and eventually the .25-06.

A .22 caliber isn't good for deer, its adequate. If you can't handle recoil, use a .243. I've never seen anyone even a youth hunter that can't handle one. If you have 90 pound deer and are an excellent shot, go ahead and use one. But there's a reason the majority of people use bigger.

ive did some ballistics experimentation with .223 using a couple different size bullets and comparing it with alternatives like the 6.8SPC.. and the bullet i was testing loads based around was 75 grains, used hornadys a-max 75 grain bullet and well what i discovered is it actually retains a lot of energy downrange, the BC is so good with the 75 grain over 55 that it extends your effective range another 1-200 yards, and the polymer tip bullet for more reliable expansion would make it a superb hunting round on deer

however, best to have atleast a 1-8" twist barrel, and a 1-7 would be more efficient at it..

There is a Savage new that you can be bought for 400.00 and Rem has a 783 that will go for a little less and has good reports. GOOD LUCK

i wonder what the OPs reasons for not wanting 30-06 again are?.. too much recoil? maybe he wants a wider variety of cartridges in his collection.. it would be interesting to know the reasoning?

If you want a left handed bolt action rifle, check out the Savage Axis.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/axis

Several calibers too choose from.

223
22-250
243
7mm-08
308

25-06
270
30-06

Some left handed folks like leveraction rifles....although I dont personally. You should be able to find them used right after deer season via local pawn shops and such.

Note: Some states do not allow 223 for use as a deer slayin cartridge and some do. It's worth checking into before you decide as to what caliber you want to go with.

You can find a good scout scope mount for a Mosin Nagant here http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirear...Ordering-Information-and-Current-Availibility I have two of these are they are great.....chris3

ngnrd said:

At the risk of inducing a bit of thread drift, I have to ask...

Is there nothing to be said of the current production of heavier, tougher .224 bullets, or the rifle manufacturers decisions to add more twist in modern 223 barrels to allow their use? Things change, and we must allow ourselves the freedom to change with them. Heck, 20+ years ago, we wouldn't/couldn't even be having this discussion, because the Internet as we now know it didn't even exist. Would you also assert that it's inappropriate to have this conversation on a modern Internet forum, and that we should limit such conversations to occasions where we can sit down face-to-face over a cup of coffee - because that's the way it was done 20+ years ago?

Still, I do understand the basis of your concern regarding the 223. Even today, although there's only a small difference in velocity between the 223 and the 222, I wouldn't take any shot at a deer with my 222 because its twist rate limits it to lighter, more frangible bullets more appropriate for varmints. But, assuming an appropriate twist rate is used, I wouldn't have any hesitation shooting deer at reasonable ranges with a 223, provided I was using one of the modern, more heavily constructed bullets currently available (60gr partitions, or 64gr bonded solid base bullets from Nosler, 62 or 75gr Swift Scirocco's, and a few different Barnes bullets come to mind).

Click to expand...

I'll drift as well, You are correct in that things change but one of the things that doesn't change is physics. Little .22 caliber bullets are certainly made more effective by the changes in technology over the last 20 or so years, but still only at close range. If it were simply a matter of making stouter bullets, then why not make a .17 caliber Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX and call the .17 Remington an adequate deer cartridge?

Remember I told you I'd killed several deer with a .220 Swift? When I began using it back in the '80's there weren't any premium bullets available, but I used what worked best for me and was very careful with my shots. Now that there are better bullets, I feel these projectiles have certainly extended the range of my Swift, but it's still not an every day, run of the mill deer cartridge in my experience and opinion. And realize it has a good 400+ fps advantage over a .223.

35W

jason41987 said:

ive did some ballistics experimentation with .223 using a couple different size bullets and comparing it with alternatives like the 6.8SPC.. and the bullet i was testing loads based around was 75 grains, used hornadys a-max 75 grain bullet and well what i discovered is it actually retains a lot of energy downrange, the BC is so good with the 75 grain over 55 that it extends your effective range another 1-200 yards, and the polymer tip bullet for more reliable expansion would make it a superb hunting round on deer

however, best to have atleast a 1-8" twist barrel, and a 1-7 would be more efficient at it..

Click to expand...

Interesting. I copied from the Hornady website and their own description of the 75 gr. A-Max. Pay special attention to the last statement (emphasis mine):

-AMP Bullet Jackets (Advanced Manufacturing Process).
-Best ballistic coefficient possible.
-Profile delivers low drag and flat trajectories.
-Swaged lead core provides uniformity and consistency.
-Unmatched accuracy at long distances.

*Match bullets are not recommended for hunting.

It ain't always about energy figures.

35W

Lots of advise on weapons and most is good

Now to the left eye dominance and right handed.
I too have this. My answer is to mount my scope/s high and role my head over the stock and sight with my left eye. It looks strange or so I've been told but I don't care. I have a lacy on leather cheek support on my M1A and it is slid all the way to the grip. I can park my chin on it and have a great sight picture in my scope is a fraction of a second. I have been told many times that the cheek piece is not on right. It is for me. I mount scopes on AR/M4 types with not less than a 1 inch riser for the same reason. My son complains about the scopes always being too high. My response is, build your own then.

Stacer said:

A misadventure in reloading caused the rifle to be damaged beyond repair .............. Any suggestions?

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Before you consider another calibre I would encourage you to make sure that you know what the problem was as how to avoid a similar problem going forward. To pop a 30-06 takes some doing.

As far as calibre goes the world is your oyster.I am just biased towards the 6.5mm Swede as it has legendary performance. If your range is limited to 200yds then a 7X57 would be a superb choice, great penetration, limited recoil and an all time classic.

Sorry to hear that. Really glad you weren't hurt any worse.

35W

Stacer said:

The rifle was destroyed because I was looking to develop a new load for 30-06 and reset my dies on a different press. I ended up not noticing I had slightly crushed the case body. The overpressure ended up blowing part of the bolt face off and stripped the lugs. The mag well expanded and ended up blowing the left side of the stock about ten feet away. I escaped with only a black eye. I took the rifle to Dick Williams Gunshop in Saginaw, MI to get checked out before I did anything. They were the ones that told me it was not repairable. I am against the 30-06 right now only because this accident left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm looking for something different. I do have a 30-30, but I just can't ruin the lines of the gun by putting a scope on it. The nagant is fun, but my shoulder doesn't like it. All the other rifles I have are milsurps, and I'm not willing to bubba any of them. I didn't know what I had on the Springfield until it was in pieces in my hand. But I am going to try and sell some parts to try and get at least a bit of my money back out of it.

Click to expand...

I know deep down you know this but you know you can't blame the cartridge for a mistake you made. The 30-06 did nothing wrong and the 30-06 is probably the most versatile cartridge ever developed. No other commercial cartridge can be loaded with bullets that range from 110gr all the way up to 220grs. (and all are accurate too)

I have a bunch of 30-06 rifles and I highly doubt I will ever be without at lease one 30-06.

Yup the .30-06 is a deadly effective deer round.

Fremmer said:

Yup the .30-06 is a deadly effective deer round.

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I'll go further and say it's deadly effective on any game in North America.

I have 5 30-06s and have for reloaded them for 40+ years with never a issue. I don't buy the "crushed case" thing. Although the OP may believe that I have never seen that kind of rifle destruction unless the wrong power was loaded.

jim in Anchorage said:

I have 5 30-06s and have for reloaded them for 40+ years with never a issue. I don't buy the "crushed case" thing. Although the OP may believe that I have never seen that kind of rifle destruction unless the wrong power was loaded.

Click to expand...

There's no need in scrutinizing the man. He destroyed his rifle, for whatever reason, just leave it at that.

35W

How bout a nice .308, since .30-06 is out for the reasons you specify ?

Many good rifles to be had in your price range in .308- or .243 for that matter. I know 22 cal can and does work for deer, but too small for me !