Compact 40 vs 357 snub for woods carry

Revolvers always go BANG.

PurpleMountainOutdoors said:

Would you feel better with 10 rounds of 40 or 5 rounds of 357? Both loaded with hardcasts.

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10 rounds of .40 S&W - more firepower..

Last local hike I went on I walked a couple of hours with a 357 LCR in my pocket and a M&P 9c on my hip. I was wearing a backpack with a couple of 1/2 liter water bottles and a small first aid kit, and a couple other things but overall not more than a few pounds I'd say.

The guns really weren't a burden; I didn't really notice them there. If you're already wearing a pack then I don't think a little more weight on your hips is going to matter.

I was fairly whupped when I got back but that had more to do with scrambling over broken rock in the trail for most of the last hour of the hike

Honestly I think the whole "weight of the gun" issue is over rated. Look how much cops carry around on their belts, plus a full size gun, and many of them are on their feet all day.

For me the size of the gun comes more into play when I'm trying to keep it totally concealed in the city. Out on the trail, not too worried if my jacket or shirt should happen to blow back momentarily and expose the gun.

I won't disagree with those touting the 10mm, but in really what's it going to do that the .40 won't? Why pack around a big 10mm when you can carry a smaller .40 and accomplish the same thing? People act like the .40's going to bounce off a critter, when in fact with either one you would get pretty much identical results.

Assuming hardcast bullets, I like .38-40 style (.401") RNFP for 180gr as the meplat is pretty good and from a 4" G23 can average them at over 1,225 fps using Longshot. The really nice 200gr WFNGC from Beartooth averages just over 1,150 fps from the 4" barrel with some 800x. So I'm not exactly sure why so many think down on the .40 when it's clearly no wimp, and in fact makes a lot of sense considering the size, weight, and capacity of the weapon.

As for the 3" SP101, power wise you're fine but it's the 5 shot capacity and slow reloads that get me. Interestingly, even from a 3" SP101, the velocities can still be very good. I had one, and here's what I got:

Buffalo Bore .38 Spec 158gr LSWCHP +P: 1,098 fps avg
Remington 125gr Golden Sabre (.357): 1,238 fps avg
Remington 125gr JSP: 1,451 fps avg
Speer 135gr "short barrel" Gold Dot: 1,102 fps avg
Winchester 145gr STHP: 1255 fps avg

A few of the decidedly lower power options are in 9mm range, but trust me, even from a 3" SP101, the .357 Mag can spank the 9mm. I had some Buffalo Bore .357's but guess I never chronographed them, but according to Buffalo Bores website:

(3" J-frame)
a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps

So yeah, a short .357 Mag can utterly SPANK the 9mm.

PurpleMountainOutdoors said:

Mostly mountain lions, potential two legged threats, and possible black bears.

Mostly it's for when I don't feel like wearing a full size gun.
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We're basically talking a 3" SP101 vs an M&P 40c

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"Black bears" may present a different category.

I used to carry one of my .357 Magnum's, either 4" or 2.25", as a medium-bore handgun for most backwoods Jeeping & walking forays where the chance of encountering an angry small CA black/brown bear was theoretically possible.

Nowadays? Much less chance of a bear in these mountains, but maybe some cats (bobcat, mountain lion) or maybe a sick coyote, so I'd be fine with any of my smallish snubs or pistols chambered in .357, .40 or .45 ACP ... and for many hiking situations probably even one of my .38 Spl snubs or 9's.

I'd not bother to get back into handloading for such a need, either, and would be content with any number of factory rounds.

My SP101 DAO 2.25" snub, loaded with one of the heavier bullet weight Magnum loads, has demonstrated itself to be a light weight, controllable belt gun for when not wanting to carry my slightly larger Service-Six (or one of my .44's or my .45Colt Blackhawk). My M&P 40c, 4040PD or G27 would seem nice options, too.

I had to carry enough gear on my gun belt when working a uniformed assignment, and on a dress belt for a plainclothes assignment, that I got carrying an abundance of equipment around my waist out of my system some years ago.

One thing I've learned from personal experience with bears is that if you hit the right place the caliber doesn't matter. If you hit it in the wrong place it doesn't matter either. Go with whichever gun gives you the best chance of hitting that bear in the right place.

Compact 40 vs 357 snub for woods carry

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Well let's see...

If I was in Texas and I wanted to be able to shoot small game & snakes I'd want something like .38 Spl. ammo and CCI bird shot.

If I wanted to take larger game then 125gr and 158gr JHP .357 magnum loads.

Nice thing is you can get a .357 snub, like a SP101, to take a few bird shots, .38s and a .357 magnum all at once. Just cock the hammer to cycle to the load you desire for the occasion.

But personally, I'd just take my 629-1 4 inch .44.



And that way the bird shot ammo has more shot, the .44 Spl. loads pack wallop, and well the .44 MAGNUM loads will take care of anything else.

Not saying the .40 S&W would not do ok, but there are better choice.

Oh, drug runners? You better have something more than any pistol if that is what you are worried about.

Deaf

If I was in Texas and I wanted to be able to shoot small game & snakes I'd want something like .38 Spl. ammo and CCI bird shot.

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Heck I'm in TX and only take a 22lr into the woods for hiking, etc..

I'd feel fine with either. My 2.25" SP101 is my EDC and should handle most everything I'd stumble across on well marked and traveled trails. However, I'm a fan of the performance of the .40 out of a 4" barrel. If i were walking though an area where toe legged critters were a real problem, the .40 would be what I would go with.

My hiking gun of choice is a .357 New Vaquero. However, I can see the merits of high capacity.

Why pack around a big 10mm when you can carry a smaller .40 and accomplish the same thing?

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Because I've just never seen the need to buy a 40 I already had the 10mm.

mavracer said:

Because I've just never seen the need to buy a 40 I already had the 10mm.

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Fair enough, and I completely understand. Likewise I would add with a .40, why would anyone need to buy a 10mm?

[QUOTESee, I'm leaning to the 40 since I have a full sized 10mm. I reload, so bullets can be interchanged. Also psychologically, the 40 is like a portable compact 10mm to me. Kinda like a 38 is to a 357. ][/QUOTE]

The reloading issue makes sense, but I'm not sure about the psychological issue. I confess I don't know much about 40 and 10mm but if they're anything like 38spl and 357mag they aren't even close in the power department.

jmr40 said:

I'd take the 40, From sub 4" barrels a 357 is just a very loud 9mm. In fact many 9mm loads will beat 2-3" 357 loads by a fair margin.

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This is so much horse crap...

My sp 101 2.25" bbl. with a 158g xtp on top of 14.5 g of 2400 shoots a 5 shot average of 1266 fps.

Show me a 9mm that can do that.

I carry a Airweight J frame in my pocket loaded with .38 Special snake shot for vermin and a .357 Magnum on my belt for everything else.

Fair enough, and I completely understand. Likewise I would add with a .40, why would anyone need to buy a 10mm?

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Because they want another 100 fps

But your right 40 is a fine choice, just not mine

I'd choose (as well as have and carry) the 3" SP101.

Though, if you're allowed to open carry (I am where I live) and going out into the wild, I'd choose (as well as have and carry) a 6" ss GP100.


Edited to Add: I would also stuff a pocket with reloads if venturing out into the wild.

You can get hard cast hunting loads for the 357, don't know if you can do that for the 40.

Just go with a 357 sig. Ya have the same number of rounds as the 40 and the ballistics of the magnum

.357 Mag SP101.

OP - you say "hard cast" - this means wide-meplat bullets to be effective. Wide-meplat bullets are Revolver territory, plain and simple - sure, SOME pistols can cycle them, but the majority of them may risk a hangup with one.

See, I'm leaning to the 40 since I have a full sized 10mm. I reload, so bullets can be interchanged. Also psychologically, the 40 is like a portable compact 10mm to me. Kinda like a 38 is to a 357.

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The .40 is FAR more sensitive to issues from bullet setback than a 10mm - something revolver cartridges don't really have to worry about. Even if you're doing your part, a WFN bullet has a higher chance of getting pushed back into the case on feeding than a revolver round that just sits at the front of the cylinder.

Also, check to see if the M&P has a well-supported chamber or not - the SHIELD has had issues with the 9mm models making bulges in the case due to a under-cut ramp for "better reliability". If you M&P is not WELL-SUPPORTED, then frankly .357 it is.

I'd guess the meplat on a .35 projectile won't be any bigger than the one on a .40 cal projectile.