$400 AR15s at Brownells

Now, if you want to argue that those parts, which are still over $600 (this isn't July 4th), are "as good as" mil spec or "you won't notice the difference", you are more than welcome.

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You dont seem to understand. They are not "as good as" mil spec, THEY ARE MIL SPEC. I received a standard H buffer with my lower kit. You can not believe me, or other people or even the manufacturer/merchant. If thats the case, what makes you think other manufacturers arent duping you too? I mean, if PSA is lying about their parts quality/spec, wouldnt that mean that conceivably every other manufacturer/merchant could also be untruthful?

Jackal said:

You dont seem to understand. They are not "as good as" mil spec, THEY ARE MIL SPEC. I received a standard H buffer with my lower kit. You can not believe me, or other people or even the manufacturer/merchant. If thats the case, what makes you think other manufacturers arent duping you too? I mean, if PSA is lying about their parts quality/spec, wouldnt that mean that conceivably every other manufacturer/merchant could also be untruthful?

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You posted the $109 $59 BCG, correct?

This shouldn't be such a big deal. You cannot build a 'mil spec' complete AR for $600 right now.

You can build a ~$600 PSA that should be a better quality rifle than the Brownells deal

BigBL87 said:

OK, with those defined, which parts on my build do not meet your definition? Again, not being snarky and I apologize if it comes across that way. I'm new to ARs, so trying to learn. I know the carbine buffer, and I honestly may be getting an H buffer eventually as I have considered it.

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Have you posted any links to something that is available?

Also, from one of your out of stock links, it says:

Standard Carbine Buffer

Again, that could be every bit 'as good as' for your purposes, but it isn't the spec, which is what was claimed. No reason not be accurate here.

Warp said:

You posted the $109 $59 BCG, correct?

This shouldn't be such a big deal. You cannot build a 'mil spec' complete AR for $600 right now.

You can build a ~$600 PSA that should be a better quality rifle than the Brownells deal



Have you posted any links to something that is available?

Also, from one of your out of stock links, it says:

Standard Carbine Buffer

Again, that could be every bit 'as good as' for your purposes, but it isn't the spec, which is what was claimed. No reason not be accurate here.

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I posted links to things I bought about a month ago. No they aren't available this very moment, but if you're saying a month invalidates it, we're getting way too into semantics. If you add $30 for an H2 buffer (probably going to buy one soon actually) that would put me at $614, not counting a rear sight to be fair.

You posted the $109 $59 BCG, correct?

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Not correct. I listed it as such: BCG- $89

The sale price I purchased it at. Obviously not everything is in stock at the moment or at sale price, thats why I clearly stipulated that you have to watch sales.

Jackal said:

Not correct. I listed it as such: BCG- $89

The sale price I purchased it at. Obviously not everything is in stock at the moment or at sale price, thats why I clearly stipulated that you have to watch sales.

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I suppose if you are willing to wait some number of months and pay shipping 2-4 times you could pull it off.

And I'd rather do that than get the Brownells deal so it is definitely worth considering at this price point for anybody who doesn't mind stalking PSA (and doesn't mind buying PSA).

I suppose if you are willing to wait some number of months and pay shipping 2-4 times you could pull it off.

And I'd rather do that than get the Brownells deal so it is definitely worth considering at this price point for anybody who doesn't mind stalking PSA (and doesn't mind buying PSA).

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Bingo, nailed it. I'd NEVER order from PSA if time was of the essence. They are slow as molasses compared to everyone else.

Jackal said:

Bingo, nailed it. I'd NEVER order from PSA if time was of the essence. They are slow as molasses compared to everyone else.

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At this point I think an extremely valid strategy is...


Wait for Black Friday and check every gun forum you know of for their Black Friday deals threads, and check PSA, and check Aim Surplus, and check anybody else you choose, and there's bound to be something ridiculous.

I'd NEVER order from PSA if time was of the essence. They are slow as molasses compared to everyone else.

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Between myself and a couple of friends, we've ordered 6 uppers, 3 BCGs, 3 LBKs and other parts from them in the last couple of months. They've shipped within 3 business days except for one LBK, which took 6 days. The nice thing about PSA is their live inventory.

As for their quality, I have honestly been quite impressed. I've found no cosmetic issues, everything is properly assembled, including appropriate torque on barrel nuts, which is more than I can say for some other "premium" manufacturers, and they clearly state which materials are used for what. As I'm not hung up on the mil spec thing, I prefer stainless or non-chromed CMV barrels due to generally better accuracy potential. Both of my PSA uppers (16", mid lengths, one "freedom" stainless and a PTAC heavy stainless), both have been able to hold MOA @ 50 yards for 5 shot groups with 3-5MOA RDS. I'm sure they'd be very close to MOA at further distances with a scope, but it's pretty difficult to pull off itty bitty 100+ yard groups with zero magnification optics that basically obscure the bullseye completely at such ranges.

Mach, your lucky. The 5 uppers I have ordered over the last couple years have all taken around a 1-1.5 months to show up. Certain small parts orders have been faster, around 10days-2 weeks. I'll attribute the slow shipping to the times when I order, usually on a holiday sale when PSA gets slammed with orders.

Jackal said:

Mach, your lucky. The 5 uppers I have ordered over the last couple years have all taken around a 1-1.5 months to show up. Certain small parts orders have been faster, around 10days-2 weeks. I'll attribute the slow shipping to the times when I order, usually on a holiday sale when PSA gets slammed with orders.

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The timing may be it. When I ordered my upper shipped out in 2 days, my lower shipped in about 5 days.

Anyway, to get this thread back on track. $400 for a functioning AR is pretty darn good, regardless of the specs. That said, I'd toss in the extra $150-$200 for a M&P Sport or the new Ruger 556.

Didn't the actual "mil spec" call for a carbine buffer in the M4? It certainly did for the XM177. In any case a buffer is not an expemsive item... and a 7075 RE can be had for about $10 more than a 6065 one. It's not even an issue if you go with a fixed stock. Of course a PSA AR is not a fully mil spec rifle... neither is a Colt, BCM, or DD unless it has a burst or auto FCG. Using a PSA upper though, you can get as close as legally possible for a civilian setup for right around $600. I've built 3 of them for less than 600 myself. They also offer some options that are better than the mil spec for a lot of uses, such as mid length gas, lighter profile barrels, and hammer forged "machine gun steel" barrels.

This $400 Brownell's special isn't anywhere close to the mil specs, but it is actually better than a lot of low end rifles out there... the nitrided barrel and 1/7 twist are nice features. Also, while the M4 profile barrel isn't my favorite, I like it better than the heavy profile that Ruger and S&W use.

I believe one could do a lot worse than the deal Brownell's is offering. With that said I built my rifle from a PSA kit. IIRC with shipping it cost me $515 for the rifle itself. I bought a blem premium rifle kit (small scratch on upper I touched up with a black magic marker) & a blem stripped lower (I couldn't find a scratch). Of course I still had to buy a rear sight & magazines. If you want to build an AR inexpensively subscribe to PSA's E-mails & be patient & you can get some deals. My rifle kit shipped quickly. I had it 6 business days after I ordered it. The lower took about 3 weeks. I called & they made me get my FFL to resend his license (not sure if that was a stall, he said they should have already had it). I was more interested in getting the best value than getting it fast though.

Today at PSA:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...-upper-with-bcg-charging-handle-and-mbus.html

Midlength MOE Upper: $329.99

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/2416/

Assembled MOE lower: $179.99

That's $510 before shipping and transfer. Not bad, but I know not all of it will be mil-spec.

Husker_Fan said:

Today at PSA:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/inde...-upper-with-bcg-charging-handle-and-mbus.html

Midlength MOE Upper: $329.99

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/2416/

Assembled MOE lower: $179.99

That's $510 before shipping and transfer. Not bad, but I know not all of it will be mil-spec.

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Lately it seems like a $500-550 build is very doable on a consistent basis. I'm amazed that $400 is possible, but it makes me happy because it makes them more available to the average shooter.

Oh, and Go Big Red.

henschman said:

Didn't the actual "mil spec" call for a carbine buffer in the M4? It certainly did for the XM177. In any case a buffer is not an expemsive item... and a 7075 RE can be had for about $10 more than a 6065 one. It's not even an issue if you go with a fixed stock. Of course a PSA AR is not a fully mil spec rifle... neither is a Colt, BCM, or DD unless it has a burst or auto FCG. Using a PSA upper though, you can get as close as legally possible for a civilian setup for right around $600. I've built 3 of them for less than 600 myself. They also offer some options that are better than the mil spec for a lot of uses, such as mid length gas, lighter profile barrels, and hammer forged "machine gun steel" barrels.

This $400 Brownell's special isn't anywhere close to the mil specs, but it is actually better than a lot of low end rifles out there... the nitrided barrel and 1/7 twist are nice features. Also, while the M4 profile barrel isn't my favorite, I like it better than the heavy profile that Ruger and S&W use.

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You cannot, at this time, buy a "mil spec" AR15 type rifle for $600 or less.

That's just the way it is.

If you want a "that's not bad" rifle, you can piece one together for $600 or less.

Funny thing is, most folks dont even really want a mil spec rifle. I myself am not a fan of 1/7 twist. All I ever use is cheap 55gr-62gr fodder, the 1/8-1/9 usually suits me better, as does after market handguards, muzzle devices, stocks, grips, etc. Most of our rifles may start out as "mil spec", but nearly all of us improve upon the minimum standards set by Uncle Sam in his "mil specs". Not many folks want the bare bones, nearly AK spartan approach to the basic/plain mil spec standard AR.

Jackal said:

Sad thing is, most folks dont even really want a mil spec rifle. I myself am not a fan of 1/7 twist. All I ever use is cheap 55gr-62gr fodder, the 1/8-1/9 usually suits me better, as does after market handguards, muzzle devices, stocks, grips, etc. Most of our rifles may start out as "mil spec", but nearly all of us improve upon the minimum standards set by Uncle Sam in his "mil specs".

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We sure do. But most people -don't- change out the parts that really matter, where the money is spent. Generally the barrel and the BCG are not changed. Often the FCG is not either, and if it is, it is for something more expensive anyway.

People don't buy the mid priced, quality rifles from reputable manufacturers for the grip or the plastic handguards.

Pointing this out, as you did, illustrates why I am a big fan of assembling your own rifle from something like a BCM upper, especially with the free BCG deal they are apparently still doing. Pick your own grip, handguard/rail, sights/optics, FCG, etc.

Yeah, that $615 shipped deal for the complete BCM 16" upper with BCG, DD Lite II handguard and BCM muzzle brake is tempting me, even after I sold my other 2 BCM rifles..... Toss is a assembled lower for around $200 and you have a (near) top notch rifle for $800ish.

I feel like buying the carbon 15 just for the low price. Especially when you consider that you need to pay at least $800 for a real milspec. Must.... resist..... the...... urge......

You cannot, at this time, buy a "mil spec" AR15 type rifle for $600 or less.

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Like I said in my last post, I agree with you. You couldn't build one for $6,000 for that matter, because if it is fully mil spec, it will have to be a transferrable Class 3 firearm.

You can, however, put together a rifle that is as close as you can legally get, without going NFA, in the $600 range using a PSA upper and BCG.

henschman said:

Like I said in my last post, I agree with you. You couldn't build one for $6,000 for that matter, because if it is fully mil spec, it will have to be a transferrable Class 3 firearm.

You can, however, put together a rifle that is as close as you can legally get, without going NFA, in the $600 range using a PSA upper and BCG.

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This is why I put "mil spec" or 'mil-spec' in quotes, because I am trying to avoid the super duper nit pickers who will say that because it isn't a machine gun with a 14.5" barrel it isn't a mil spec M4.

Also, "$600 range" =/= $600

You cannot build a "mil spec" AR15 style rifle, new, right now, for $600.

You can argue that none of these are SBR machine guns, and that's true.

You can argue that you can build a 'mil spec' AR15 style rifle for more than $600 (maybe not a whole lot more), and that is true.

You can argue that what you can build for $600 or less is 'good enough' or 'you won't notice a difference' vs the 'mil spec', and that might be true, depending on the person, uses, specific rifle and parts, etc.

But you cannot build what we all know is meant by a 'mil spec' (civilian) rifle for $600.

Now, if you want to argue about what parts constitute a 'mil spec' civilian rifle, and say that it doesn't need a 1:7 twist to qualify, or it doesn't need a shot peened C158 HPT/MPI bolt to qualify, or it doesn't need a 7075 RE with machined threads and dry lube inside finish etch, that is a different topic entirely.

I don't know why you want to make this so difficult and complicated, it's really not.

So I shouldn't say "real" milspec. Let's say you can buy a fake milspec for $800, a less than fake milspec for $600, and less less than fake milspec for $400.

So if they come up with a less less less than fake milspec for $300, then I'm all in. Who would think you could get an AR for the cost of a bar tab.

My Psa Ar is awsome for 550, this includes shipping transfer fees ect,chrome lined barrel, less optics.
put a red dot I had on it. Only shot 50 yards but wow 100 rounds no problem.less than a 1 inch group.If I had a better scope I believe it would shoot 1 inch at 100 yards.