G42 and Buffalo Bore 100 grain

Water-Man said:

AustinTX,

You need to get your facts straight when comparing the Underwood Gold Dot to the Buffalo Bore Hard Cast, which is what I related to.

kokapelli,

The same applies to you.

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The Buffalo Bore Hard cast doesn't expand and penetrates well over 30" in ballistic gelatin test, so it would be an utter failure in the "Shooting The Bull" as well as the FBI tests, but We each have to decide what we think is best for our carry load, just please don't shoot anyone with the "Hard Cast" if I'm standing behind them.

So Shooting The Bull is now the authority on ballistics?

What do you use in your .380 acp?

Back in the 1970s I had a Llama 380 that looked like a mini 1911. It even had locking lugs on the barrel.
I hot loaded that thing with experimental loads until I finally bulged the poor barrel. A 380 is not a 38 Super....

As for over-penetration, I always assume to whatever I am shooting will over penetrate. That is the best way to avoid a law-suit or jail time. I had to touch off a 357 magnum inside a small apartment once. The last second seemed like five minutes as I was wondering if my department would back me up or send me to jail.

There is a point about winter clothing... Many hollow points clog up with cloth and in fact become a hard-ball bullet.

If you assailant weighs 275 pounds and is wearing a heavy duck cloth Carhartt coat with a thick blanket lining, that item of clothing is merely over the top of a heavy shirt and long johns. There might even be a sweater involved.
AND.....
If you are on the ground getting kicked to death as you start to fire upward, you will have to penetrate lots of clothing and possibly lots of fat and meat before you get to a vital organ. ( I teach crotch shots )

Water-Man said:

So Shooting The Bull is now the authority on ballistics?

What do you use in your .380 acp?

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Shooting The Bull has done real world testing that exceeds anything else I have seen with 380 jhp rounds, so yes as of right now they are at the top of my list.

Do you have someone else that has done better testing? If you do please share it with us.

I can't see anything wrong with what ShootingTheBull410 does.

He uses IWBA-specification 16oz per square yard, heavy denim, his blocks are BB calibrated and temperature controlled.

I consider his results valid.

The clear gel tests are more of a gateway test - if it fails in the clear gel he doesn't waste time and money with ordnance gel and 4 layers of denim.

Another non-JHP that performs well is the Lehigh XP Xtreme Penetrator and it doesn't shoot clean out the back of assailants.

Lehigh XP Xtreme Penetrator test in ballistic gel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw&index=33&list=PLgNSGOEQko_MjOCGyqlMTiM2njdQQRbdg

Why didn't you answer my second question kokapelli?

Water-Man said:

Why didn't you answer my second question kokapelli?

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I just purchased a few boxes of Fiocchi extreme with the XTP bullet and test fired it yesterday in my G42, P238, P3AT and my TCP.

It functioned perfectly in all but the P238, so I will be carrying it in all my pocket pistols with the exception of the P238.

The Precision One ammo is hard to get.

C0untZer0 said:

The Precision One ammo is hard to get.

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Yes but since the Extrema was pretty close in performance and is Avilable from Cabelas for a reasonable price I ordered a hundred rounds from them.

C0untZer0 said:

I can't see anything wrong with what ShootingTheBull410 does.

He uses IWBA-specification 16oz per square yard, heavy denim, his blocks are BB calibrated and temperature controlled.

I consider his results valid.

The clear gel tests are more of a gateway test - if it fails in the clear gel he doesn't waste time and money with ordnance gel and 4 layers of denim.

Another non-JHP that performs well is the Lehigh XP Xtreme Penetrator and it doesn't shoot clean out the back of assailants.

Lehigh XP Xtreme Penetrator test in ballistic gel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczfeWK9lHw&index=33&list=PLgNSGOEQko_MjOCGyqlMTiM2njdQQRbdg

Click to expand...

The Lehigh XP is interesting, but almost three times the price per round as the Fiocchi Extrema.

Also I haven't been able to find any of the Lehigh ammo anyway.

Lehigh has a video in YouTube and they do not recommend the XP for Kahr pistols because they had some feeding problems with it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4RzpCcAPp84

Right now I still have the Underwood XTP 95 gr in my TCP and CZ83.

Much hotter than the Extrema. Good numbers and reviews.

Going to order up some hardcast again for winter. It's about that time for the seasonal switch again.

Armor Snail said:

Right now I still have the Underwood XTP 95 gr in my TCP and CZ83.

Much hotter than the Extrema. Good numbers and reviews.

Going to order up some hardcast again for winter. It's about that time for the seasonal switch again.

Click to expand...

The Underwood XTP round is pretty hot and expands nicely, but due to it's higher velocity it expands too much causing it to completely fail the FBI minimum depth requirements. This may be the reason Shooting The Bull did not use it in their final testing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z2hNYEUbRjw

kokapelli said:

The Underwood XTP round is pretty hot and expands nicely, but due to it's higher velocity it expands too much causing it to completely fail the FBI minimum depth requirements. This may be the reason Shooting The Bull did not use it in their final testing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z2hNYEUbRjw

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That's why it's getting switched out for winter. T shirts I'm not too worried about. Outerwear on the other hand...

Ok, but your logic eludes me.

I think the Barnes TAC-XPD would makes a great 12ga shotgun slug, but in 380 ACP it just doesn't reach deeply enough.

The Fiocchi Extrema test shows why you're better off with a hollow point.

If the XTP expands it is going to penetrate to between 14.25 and 15.25 inches, if it fails to expand it is going to penetrate around 18 inches and that's better than the 21" to 28" of penetration seen with various non-JHP

What is the deal with people buying these 380's and trying to fire the hottest and hardest recoiling rounds through them?

You might was well just bought a 9mm and shot weaker 115 loads through it. It's the same as +P+P+ ultra nuke 380acp soul slicer, or whatever the heck you're shooting through your g42.

Cant buy a 10oz 9mm...

Cant buy a 10oz 9mm...

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Why do you need a 10oz pistol?????

A slim 10 oz pistol is also a pistol with a small footprint, it is easy to pocket carry and conceal even in business slacks.

In 380 AUTO, it is not as easy to control as a larger gun, no fun to shoot but on the other hand it is a gun to be used to defend one's life and limb so it wouldn't be shot often.

I shoot my Rohrbaugh R9 enough to stay proficient with it and that's all.

It is a 13.5 oz gun.

I'd buy an R9 if it was in my Budget. Alas, a TCP and good ammo is the best I can do for work carry. I carry a CZ75 when not working.

it is easy to pocket carry

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pocket carry?

Jeez.....now I have to leave this thread before I start a fight.