Another Glock "KB" This time in 9mm

Cheap factory reloads.

/thread.

I have never seen a Glock kaboom, or any other kaboom on any other firearm, attributed to anything but a reload.

So the OP makes the classic mistake of drawing cause from correlation and any statistician worth his salt knows this is one of the most common fallacies there is.

My only-ever 'Ka-Boom' was with a Browning Hi-Power, and it was also the one and only time I fired reloads I didn't load myself; they were from a commercial reloader who supplied our State Police, and a buddy had fired thousands of them without incident.

The BHP only lost a magazine and grips, and I got my hand stung pretty well. I suppose I'll have to start talking about 'Browning Ka-Boom's' now.


Larry

I noticed my Shield will dimple cheap tula (brass max) ammo brass. Glad I only shoot my reloads now... (besides factory SDs)

Safety first, blowing yourself up later.

Looks like a high primer caused an OOB discharge.

High primers happen with reloads. Shooters fault for not carefully examining the ammunition as he loaded it into the magazine, in my opinion.

also poor reloading habits are a huge factor

I'm not a fan of Glock pistols. However, that's merely a personal preference, not a critique of their performance or reliability.

Like Coltdriver mentioned, we never seem to hear about a KB citing XYZ brand of ammunition, only reloads, or at best factory reloaded.

When the issue popped up with .40 S&W chambered Glocks, the problem was quickly attributed to setback caused by multiple chambering of the same round causing pressure spikes. Excess pressure seemed to be the common cause then and I suspect it probably is now. Speculation on my part, yes. But rational speculation.

If the KB's happened with any percentage of regularity or were attributable to mechanical failure under normal operating conditions, GLOCK would be owned by the Little Old Lady from Pasadena who sued them out of solvency.

The issue of a primer not seated properly has been raised and is possible. However, most handgun loading is done on progressive presses where a short stroke causes issues at every station, not just the priming station. And if a commercial reload, the machinery used is more likely to smash a primer in sideways than it is to not fully seat one. Not impossible on commercial stuff, but unlikely.

Mr.Revolverguy said:

...Why do insurance companies consider factory reloaded ammunition safer than what I do at home? With the guy in his pole barn cranking out thousands of rounds isn't he more likely to have an issue just by volume sake? ...

Click to expand...

A licensed ammo remanufacturer would have their own insurance. Insurance companies don't give a rip about anyone as long as they are not liable.

So you are jumping to an unwarranted conclusion regarding the perceived safety of factory reloads.

My only-ever 'Ka-Boom' was with a Browning Hi-Power, and it was also the one and only time I fired reloads I didn't load myself; they were from a commercial reloader who supplied our State Police, and a buddy had fired thousands of them without incident.

Click to expand...

Same here...
Police dept commercial reloads ruptured in a friends G17. Didn't hurt the gun, but his hand looked just like the pic in the op!

Mr.Revolverguy said:

True armarsh I haven't given that much thought. It could be that this particular range's insurance company says it's easier to get damage settlements out of the large guy who is most likely insured.

Click to expand...

I think that is exactly it. In one hypothetical case a person of modest means is severely injured shooting his own reloads. In his desperation he may sue the range owner even if he knows it is not morally right. If this same person had been shooting factory re-manufactured ammo he would sue the re-manufacturer.

It is easy to see how these rules can come about, even if I find them repugnant.

On the main point of the thread, the KB, I would wager that it involves a fast dense power like Titegroup where the intended load occupies half the case volume.

My early Glock Model 23 .40 S&W will fire out of battery by almost 1/8".
(By design)

And it has a very generous chamber and feed ramp cut.
(by design)

Combine that with 35,000 PSI rounds.
Plus the myth that you never have to clean Glocks?

Sooner or later crud can build up in the chamber headspace shoulder and hold the slide further & further out of battery.

Until there is no case support.

But it will still fire until a case blows out.

rc

First, that looks to me like an out of battery firing, not a cartridge case failure or a feed ramp problem. The case is bulged out at the top, not just at the bottom.

There have been a lot of rants about the policy of gun companies not to warrant guns if fired with reloads. This may range from "I know a lot more than Remchesfed ..." to "Commercial reloads are as good/better than anything Remchesfed makes ..." Maybe. But if there is a problem, the gun company's engineers and lawyers can get together with the licensed ammo maker's people and try to figure out whose problem it is. That is hard when a basement reloader is involved.

As for "commercial reloaders", that term is pretty flexible. Some are OK and their product looks as good and works as well as any factory ammo. And the good ones buy only once-fired brass from military and police ranges. But others buy range scrap from club ranges and the like, have no engineers, no QC, and sometimes not even a fixed address, only a P.O. Box, if that. Sometimes, they don't even have an FFL, just an old Star reloader and plastic baggies for their output, which they peddle through friends at gun shows.

Jim

A must read

About what causes Glock Kaboom and it comes down to ammo...

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=1698.0

Keyword in these Glock horror stories is ALWAYS Reloads, be they "Factory" (No such thing really), or home made.
In MOST cases the Kaboom is also caused by using plain or plated lead bullets in the cartridges when Glock SPECIFICALLY states in EVERY Factory Manual to use Jacketed Bullets.

My greatest complaint of the .40 S&W involves bullet set back or loading a bullet too deep in the case.
Either can cause dramatic pressure spikes capable of blowing up most pistols.

The 10mm Glock Kabooms the writer mentions are also interesting because nearly every one I am familiar with involves the use of plain or plated lead bullet reloads

In this case the writer does NOT mention the type of bullet loaded, (Typical) Does NOT mention events just prior to the Kaboom, (Typical), but DOES jump right on the unsupported chamber observation, (Typical).
The writer DOES mention the number of Glock pistols in the market which percentage wise is very much greater than the numbers of similar pistols which can and does affect percentiles of incident.
What the writer DOES NOT mention is the percentile of Glock Pistols in Law Enforcement and Military/Paramilitary hands and the extremely low numbers of percentile incidents occurring with pistols used in these scenarios which is mainly attributed to having skilled Glock Armorers on site and following the manufacturers recommendations.

Bottom line.
If you wish to use reloaded ammunition and specifically reloaded plain lead, plated lead, or your buddies suspect home brews, get an Aftermarket barrel that features conventional rifling paired with a fully supported chamber.
Doing so has been shown to reduce incident of Kaboom substantially.
Actually, I don't know of ANY incidents of Kaboom noted when this suggestion is followed.

I had a kaboom in a S&W Model 66 revolver back in the 80s firing factory .38 Specials. Blew the top strap up and the right side of the cylinder was converted to shrapnel. Best guess was a double charged round. When a gun blows it is always the ammo. A good gun protects the shooter when it happens as the 66 did. I was glad there was no one on my right when it happened though.

Keyword in these Glock horror stories is ALWAYS Reloads, be they "Factory" (No such thing really), or home made.

Click to expand...

That is false.

There were Glock KaBoom! cases with name brand factory ammo.

However, even name brand companies also make mistakes time to time.

9mm Glocks are standard in many spec ops and military units here. My friends serve as instructors in training facilities for almost 10 years. Never ever any Glock kaboomed and pretty much in so many years they never saw Glock failing (main parts, slide, frame, barrel). May be because police and military are restricted to use reloaded remanufactured ammo?

There were Glock KaBoom! cases with name brand factory ammo.

Click to expand...

Glocks are so prevalent at this point that any manufactured ammo that doesn't work in a Glock can be considered defective.

Kb's can and do happen with other semiautos, but I can see how Glocks are more prone than some. I have observed that my Glocks have a fairly short lock time on the action compared to some other pistols. This certainly doesn't help. I would be surprised to see an oob kb on an FNX, for instance. The barrel stays locked to the slide for a much longer distance than in a Glock. Stoegar Cougar also has a pretty good lock duration.

I think chamber support is overblown/overstressed in these discussions. If the action is unlocking too soon because of OOB, then chamber support is going to be bad, period. I'm more interested in lock time and how far the gun can fire OOB than chamber support.

Mr.Revolverguy said:

Whether a fan of Glock handguns or not, most would agree that the Glock “KB” (“Ka Boom” phrase coined by journalist Dean Speir) is a phenomena that will simply not go away for Glock.

Click to expand...

<--Disagree.