Hang fire and misfire

Brush the bore between shots, no lube. Swab about 3 times with an oversize bronze brush.

Is your channel clean? (the path from cap to breach) Also what caps are you using? Powder?

A "damp" spit patch down&up the barrel will not cause misfires at all, but it will permit continuous loading.

"Hawken"

What make... and does it have a patent breech section at the bottom ?
Answer these as well as powder/caps and we probably will be able to pinpoint the problem.

had a lot of similar trouble now when i load my hawken i tap the but on the ground a couple of times to settle some powder into the channel before ball goes in this seems to make a huge diference.

Push a patch down the bore with your jag.

Remove your nipple and look into the channel.

Can you see the patch?

If you can, then the problem is not with your channel or bore, It's with your nipple.

Can you see through the hole in your nipple?

Or, maybe, you are using way too much lubricant and fouling your cap.

Go one step at a time.

A cap will send flame at least a foot (sometimes far more) up into the barrel,
as long as the channel/breech section is clear. Tapping the butt to get powder
further into the channel merely delays lock time as the narrow channel is now
a fuse.

Channels are drilled in sideways from the nipple. Unless the OP has a cleanout
screw he will be unable to see the bottom of the breech/patch.
And if he has a patent breech section, he won't see the patch even then.

(But if he does have a patent breech, I can predict the answer to the
problem w/ almost 100% certainty.

.

What powder and rifle are you using?

what is a patent breech?

ok nevermind looked it up

What make rifle do you have?

Ive got a conneticut valley arms hawken it doesnt have the patent breech

I love the CVA Hawken, my personal choice.

If you are using bulky sub powder like Pyrodex, Triple 7, ESPECIALLY American Pioneer, its harder to get it to flow through the breech plug and into the bolster. Slapping the opposite side of the lock does help shift it under the nipple, but if its those powders above, they are bulky and often do not flow smoothly and give a hang fire or no fire. A cabelas hawken we have is bad with any of the 2f grade black powder subs.

Get some real black powder like Goex 2f or 3f, you will be MUCH happier.

If you have to use Pyrodex or T7 due to Goex being hard to find, go with 3f triple 7 or pyrodex P.

Another great item to upgrade is the stainless steel spitfire nipple that Cabelas sells. It has a big hollow dish which helps produce more spread of the #11 percussion cap.

Videos section on the menu bar: http://www.patchnball.blogspot.com/

1. If you have access to real BP, use that totally -- not a duplex load of BP & Pyrodex

2. Do you take the nipple out as part of the cleaning process ? If not, I recommend you
do..., clean out/oil the threads... and run a soapy-water pipe-cleaner through
the flash channel at the bottom before drying with same.

3. If your lock has THIS for the cleanout screw section, see if you can remove it after
soaking the breech in Kroil for a few days. Then either replace or drill out/retap for
a clean screw.

Thanks for all your imformation on this MEHavey I have to disagree with just one thing though the delay through the channel it would only act as a fuse if
it were packed tight with BP a few loose grains tapped in during loading just gives a bit more reliability at least thats what i have found.

Dont even bother with that clean out screw, they are a waste of time and machining costs IMO.

Yes you can safely use Pyrodex P in the MR. Great rifle by the way.. I'd start off with 70 grains and max out around 100.

Always remove the nipple when doing the hot soapy water bath.

Your ignition problem easily is the results for the bulky powder not flowing into the powder channel/bolster. Its a restrictive hole in the CVA breech system.

Are you showing the bottom of a CVA barrel here?
If so... is what we're seeing in effect a patent breech constriction?

yes thats the bottom of the barrel and the breech plug/bolster set up. This is what they call the patent breech for a cva/traditions rifle.

I can take a picture of a cabelas hawken which has the better know one piece patent breech set up. That system is worse than any other i've shot due to the powder channel being so tiny. Even pyrodex rs clogs it.

Yuck. That's barely 1/6" in a 50cal bore. No wonder there's potential
ignition problems in the CVA. If that constriction isn't cleaned spotless
after range sessions, it's just going to gradually close up like calcium
deposits in a drainpipe (and you ain't got much room in there to start
with.)

You mentioned a Cabelas Hawken w/ the same (worse) problem.
Who makes that one?

CVA

IIRC some CVA's did have the pattent breech.
I PM ed you with some info.
But since you don't know.
I would get the clean out screw out (PM me)
so you can be absolutely sure that channel is clear.
but in mean time.
Remove the barrel and nipple. Set breech down in a tall plastic glass.
Pour rubbing alcohol in the barrel till cup if 1/2 full or above the flash channel. it will soften the fouling if any in the breech.
Use a breech brush (not a bore brush) to work the fouling loose if it is caked in the breech. use mostly twisting motion.
then dump the RA out of the bore. swab dry. Inspect with bore light.
Repeat if necessary. Done properly the RA will soften and remove and swabbed dry quickly will not rust.

Its quite a bit larger than 1/16" More like in the 1/8" area. I've never had any build up, always use warm soapy water and it flushes right out. Now if you are using that bore butter crud and its getting down into the bolster, THEN you will have some major issues.

I also do the alcohol in the bore after the bore has been dried. You see where the breech plug face meets up with the rifling? Dry patching doesnt remove the water from that area and so when you run a patch down the bore, often you'll get rusty patches coming out due to the left over moisture.

A shot of alcohol down the bore, let it sit, flush it out, dry patch and then oil. It removes all that moisture in that breech area.

Okay guys here is the CVA breech plug again, I highlighted the area in red to show you that CVA has a better design here as they cut a little inward so the powder has an easier time moving through the breech plug, into the bolster. Its almost like a funnel shape.
[/IMG]

Now going to the lyman/investarms patent breech we can see its simply just a hole drilled through the side. No funneling to help the powder move under the nipple, just a simple hole that is much smaller in diameter than the cva bolster and very sensitive to larger powder granules. This is why the BP subs often hang fire or dont fire at all due to NO powder getting under the nipple.

Some times it helps it you dump only half your charge and then turn it over and smack the heck out of the opposite side of the lock, but that is not a 100% guarantee.


Close up

Excellent pics... really.
Superb.

(However...)

...of the two designs, I'd take the Lyman/Investarms for the simple reason that the much narrower breech of the CVA is highly vulnerable [might I say "prone"?] to fouling out to the point of no powder at all being able to get to the opening of the flash channel itself. As long as the flame has a straight shot into a clean powder column, no funneling is needed.

(Plus...)

Cleaning a 35 caliber patent breech is no brainer.
Trying to get into what appears to a 17 caliber constriction might give me pause...
(and might not even be a thought in most CVA shooters' minds.)

Not true at all. I have a couple thousand shots through my .58cal Hawken over the last 2 years. I've had ONE fail to fire in it with Goex. And that was because I forgot to add powder

A couple hang fires due to an overly wet swabbing patch, but I have learned from that since then.

Do you very deliberately clean inside the patent constriction ?
or does it self-clean in your experience...