powder storage: So what exactly does the "cool" in "cool, dry place" mean?

I am fortunate and have a basement. Pretty much a rarity for my area. Best yet, it says dry. With A/C running in summer time and the occasional use of a dehumidifier, my powder room stays "cool and dry" 72f/50%

Mine does get up into the 90s, easily here in CA. No way am I storing it in the house, and my garage isn't climate controlled.

I don't know what bad powder smells like but I do take a sniff every time I open it to make sure it still smells the same.

Anybody keep a dessicant in their opened powder containers?

Mine does get up into the 90s, easily here in CA. No way am I storing it in the house, and my garage isn't climate controlled.

I don't know what bad powder smells like but I do take a sniff every time I open it to make sure it still smells the same.

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In my experience, when gunpowder stops having that new gunpowder smell, which I think is ethyl centralite, and starts to have a neutral smell, your powder has crested from middle age to old age. Most of the military powder I tossed because of pressure problems or case neck cracks had a slight ethly centralite to neutral smell. I believe the ethyl centralite smell might have been from some of the newer IMR 4895 in the mix. I don't believe the military or contractors make much of an effort segregating the different batches of ammunition they are demilling.

However, once most of the stabilizer is consumed, you will get a smell that will knock your socks off, and that is NOx, some of the NOx is nitric acid gas.

Fuming red nitric acid gas looks like this:


If you ever see fumes coming out of your gunpowder, dump it immediately. The stuff could autocombust at any moment.

Anybody keep a dessicant in their opened powder containers?

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I am going to say, keep anything that is not gunpowder out of the gunpowder. Well, it is OK to put litmus strips in the gunpowder, because that is a common test for nitric acid gas outgassing, (it turns color, pink I think) but in general, if you don't know how the stuff interacts with gunpowder, keep it out.

Here's how the Navy stores their ammo long term since WWII. Funny they haven't bought in to the artificial climate controls. Vents and drains seems to be as good as it gets. Never thought Hawthorne, Nevada was the coolest place on earth or Crane, Indiana was the driest place either. Shows what I know. I like cool dry myself.
Suspect several of you guys need to share your expertise with Uncle Sam and become paid consultants. OYE

http://www.denix.osd.mil/cr/upload/NSWC-Crane_1-44.pdf

Old gunpowder will blow up your firearm and autocombust, burning your house down.

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Thanks for the heads up warning on that. I'll put that on my worry list. Probably won't make the top 10 though.
OYE

Here's how the Navy stores their ammo long term since WWII. Funny they haven't bought in to the artificial climate controls. Vents and drains seems to be as good as it gets. Never thought Hawthorne, Nevada was the coolest place on earth or Crane, Indiana was the driest place either. Shows what I know. I like cool dry myself.

Suspect several of you guys need to share your expertise with Uncle Sam and become paid consultants. OYE

http://www.denix.osd.mil/cr/upload/NSWC-Crane_1-44.pdf

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I don't know what sort of point you were trying to make, but the document was interesting. The rationale behind the igloo design found in the document is worth repeating:


Storage of ammunition in earth-covered magazines was influenced by several factors. More sensitive explosives, including some types of artillery rounds and mines, were stored in earth-covered magazines to prevent sympathetic detonation of nearby magazines should an accident occur. Another consideration was temperature sensitivity. Earth-covered magazines maintained relatively stable interior temperatures throughout the year, and were ideal where temperature fluctuations might affect the explosive component, casing, or detonating element. A third factor was sensitivity to radio or electronic transmissions. As weapons technology advanced through the later years of the Cold War, guidance and detonating systems on many types of ammunition became increasingly sophisticated. This was especially true for the growing arsenal of guided missiles. The earthen covering and thick concrete of the magazine afforded additional protection from accidental ignition of the rocket motor or detonation of its explosive warhead (Burns 2007). The quantity of stored ammunition also influenced decisions to use earth-covered magazines. As they were considered safer than aboveground magazines for large quantities of ammunition, storage in earth-covered magazines made more efficient use of available space. The same amounts of explosive material could not be safely stored in a single aboveground magazine and required distribution among numerous buildings. Virtually all types of ammunition were placed in earth-covered magazines for long-term storage at depots.


The design philosophy behind the earth-covered ammunition storage facilities constructed at NSWC Crane Division showed the influence of the Lake Denmark disaster; in the event the contents exploded, the main force of the blast would be directed upward through the roof of the magazine (Plate 20). For this reason, the crown of the vault was constructed with reinforced-concrete only six-inches thick, and the side walls gradually thickened to one-and-onehalf feet at the foundation. The floor of the magazine was six-inches thick. Only two feet of earth covered the crown of the vault and the earth covering sloped to grade with a drop of one inch for every inch-and-a-half (Plate 21). The rear wall was eight-inches thick. The heavier coating of earth along the sides and rear of the shell helped prevent the force of the explosion from extending laterally. Should an explosion occur, there was little doubt that the individual magazine would be completely destroyed, but by controlling the direction of the blast, it would not lead to a chain-reaction with the explosion of nearby magazines. The magazine was designed to withstand the force of an explosion equivalent to 500,000 pounds of explosives in another magazine 185 feet away (Plate 22). The weakest point of the structure was the exposed front wall which was constructed to survive the same explosion at a distance of 360 feet. The front wall was the heaviest section of concrete in the magazine with a thickness of eighteen inches from the foundation to the top of the door, and twelve inches from the door to the top of the wall. If necessary, an earth and concrete barricade was constructed opposite the door for added protection. The earth covering helped prevent heavy pieces of reinforced concrete from an exploding magazine from penetrating the shell of another (NARA 1954:8-12). The magazine also incorporated protection from lightning, static discharge, and fire. The individual pieces of reinforcing bar used in the construction of the shell were welded to each other forming a “Faraday cage” (Plate 23). If welding equipment or experienced personnel were not available, the reinforcing bars were tightly connected with wire at each juncture. The cage was then grounded or connected to an underground wire that encircled the magazine, also known as a “counterpoise” (Plate 24). The entire assembly created a uniform field integral to the shell that efficiently grounded any electrical charge. Additional protection from either lightning or static electricity was provided by connecting the steel door frame to the counterpoise, and grounding the door to the frame with a flexible metal strap (Plate 25).

The interior of the magazine was unfinished concrete. Shallow trenches paralleled the base of the longitudinal walls to collect any water infiltration or accumulated condensation. Circular openings in the head wall of the magazine allowed water to flow out of the building. Ventilation of the magazine was required to remove fumes and aid in keeping the magazine dry. The only acceptable method of ventilation was the natural flow of air through the interior spaces. Ventilation was provided in the front of the magazine with louvered openings sealed by an adjustable damper near the bottom of the door. Ventilation in the rear incorporated a vent in the roof of the magazine, constructed of cast concrete or terra cotta with a metal or ceramic hood. Fire was also a concern. The majority of the ammunition depots were located in rural areas, oftentimes heavily wooded or on open grassland. Wildfires were a constant threat. The threat of fire required special consideration in the design of magazine ventilation systems. If fire approached the magazine, fusible links holding open the front and rear dampers would melt and counterweights automatically closed the dampers and sealed the magazine.


Using passive cooling afforded by the earth is a lot cheaper than attaching air conditioners to igloo's. All the other features, poured concrete, grounding straps, cost money. Something missed in this document is the number of Ammunition Technicians going through these igloos and examining munitions for stockpile reliability.

This link will take you to a site by the Navy Munitions Office. Nitrocellulose is used in many more things than gunpowder, and all of the things it is used in have similar storage and lifetime issues. The span of Insensitive Munitions is huge as there are a lot of different explosive devices and munitions out there.


The History of Insensitive Munitions

http://www.insensitivemunitions.org/

Thanks for the heads up warning on that. I'll put that on my worry list. Probably won't make the top 10 though.

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This sarcastic comment sounds very confident. An interesting article by David Dunning, We Are All Confident Idiots The trouble with ignorance is that it feels so much like expertise http://www.psmag.com/health-and-behavior/confident-idiots-92793 discusses this phenomena. In the article Mr Dunning shows that the more ignorant the idiot, the more confident the idiot. I observe this behavior all the times in forums.

Coolest part of my house is in the basement and that is where my reloading room is located. It is dry but can get a little humid with the washer and dryer running in the next room. What I do to combat the humidity (maybe a little overkill) is first I store my bottles in ziplock bags with a rechargeable desiccant pack in each bag to monitor conditions. Then I put the bagged bottles in tupperware-type plastic containers and then into slide out drawers of the cabinet.

With this method, the powder has been in there for several months and the desiccant packs are still bright orange which to me indicates that there is little or no humidity/moisture inside the bags. Before using bags when I just stored the powder bottles in the cabinet with the desiccant packs on the shelves, they would need recharging after a couple of weeks.

I have also been thinking about using my Food Saver and vacuum-packing my spare bottles until they are needed. I think that would offer dry/safe storage indefinitely.

Two years ago I purchased several canisters of powder from a gunstore that was going out of business. Two of the "cans" were one pound cans of Hercules 2400. One (which I still have) was and still is sealed. The other can was open and half gone when I bought it. I believe these one pound tins were from the early '60s. God only knows how they were stored over the years. I loaded the open can and ran the .357 Magnum rounds through my chronogragh. Compared to a fresh canister of Alliant 2400 I saw a loss of 25 fps(?).

What do you all think? I have a steel can of IMR 3031 I bought 50 years ago it has sat on a shelf in the basement all this time , in different basements though . Is it still any good ?

What do you all think? I have a steel can of IMR 3031 I bought 50 years ago it has sat on a shelf in the basement all this time , in different basements though . Is it still any good

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How does it look? How does it smell?

I store mine in my shop. Southwest Utah, 5400 ft elevation. Temps in the shop range from 60 - 75, heater in the winter and swamp cooler in the summer. Outside humidity runs low, yesterday it was 9% day before 2%

I always figured that meant "not the garage"

I don't know what sort of point you were trying to make, but the document was interesting.

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Wasn't trying to make a point. Thought it was an interesting report on how the military stores ammo.

This sarcastic comment sounds very confident.

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Wasn't meant to be sarcastic at all. Believe you are being a little too sensitive.

In the article Mr Dunning shows that the more ignorant the idiot, the more confident the idiot. I observe this behavior all the times in forums.

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That wasn't really called for was it ? We'll just chalk that up to your having another bad day and consider the source.
OYE

In the article Mr Dunning shows that the more ignorant the idiot, the more confident the idiot. I observe this behavior all the times in forums.

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Ive always felt I fall into the "self conscious idiot" slot...do you have any articles on those?