new toy

just one question - is that barrerl extender rifled internally, or it is just a piece of decoration?

Thanks

You do know how to repsond when Antis ask you why you have such an evil gun?


"Because it looks so bad a$$" is the correct response.

You are aware that the forward pistol grip on a handgun makes it an AOW, aren't you?

i now have an evil black pistol to go with my evil black rifle

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Which is which?

What does AOW stand for?

Robb

What does AOW stand for?

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Any Other Weapon. It's a classifcation by the ATF and if you have one, you'd damn sure better have the tax stamp that is required to make it legal. Basically, handguns can't legally have a forward grip on them (there are a few other AOW configurations - one involving shotguns). When you put one on, you have an AOW. The part, by itself, is perfectly legal. The gun, by itself, is perfectly legal. Combine the two w/o a tax stamp and you have an easy felony charge if caught.

Thanks alot. I appreciate the defination. Now it is all clear.

I don't know reliable this is, but it sounds about right. I found it here: www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

ATF has made the decision that a handgun (but not a machine gun,
since a machine gun is not also an AOW) with more than one hand
grip at an angle tot eh bore is an AOW. This is based on the gun
a) being concealable on the person, and b) not meeting the
definition of a "pistol" in the regulations promulgated under the
NFA, since they say a pistol has a single grip at an angle to the
bore. However, at least one federal magistrate has decided that if
the grip is added later, the gun is not "originally designed" to be
fired by holding in more than one grip, and thus putting a second
grip on a pistol does not make it an AOW. ATF does not regard the
decision as binding. The case is U.S. v. Davis, Crim No. 8:93-106
(D.S.C. 1993) (Report of Magistrate, June 21, 1993). The
prosecution was dismissed at the request of the Government before
any review of that determination by the trial judge.

B/C this was a ruling you won't find it written into law. Hell, I can't even find it on the ATF website. Kind of like they don't want you to know it exists. I wish it didn't (enough people - including machinegun dealers I know- are saying the same thing that I'm sure it's for real). I wish it didn't apply there's a nifty little forward handguard I'd like to put on my cobray M11 semi but I don't even buy it b/c I know I can't legally put it on.

Isn't registering an AOW only a $5 (five) tax anyways?

bluecowdog,

if it winds up being illegal i will be getting rid of it as soon as possible

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All you have to do is take the forward pistol grip off. No need to get rid of it or anything.

Yep. Definitely a toy. Enjoy it!

Make sure that whatever ATF says, you get it in writing, over a signature. Otherwise, it's just one person's opinion. Another person could have a different opinion, and you're cooked.

Believe her, it's illegal. Topic was discussed about a million times on AR15com. You'll notice no AR15 type pistols produced after '94 have a forward grip. The one exception was Olympic's AR with standard forward grip with fixed 30 rd. fixed magazine. So pistols must have their own list of number of evil features allowed.

Now let me ask this. If you have a gun that requires a stamp or a class 3, does this allow the ATF to enter your house without a warrant, If they choose to do so?

Hmmm.......An after thought. If that gun's preban, law may not effect you.

Thing is, I don't think this particular issue is governed by the ASW '94 ban. So pre-ban doesn't apply here. Pre-ban will let you have threaded barrels and bayonet lugs and such. AOW regulations are set forth under NFA.

As far as inspection rights for machineguns, I don't know. I don't think they can come barging into your home without a warrant. They almost certainly can demand to inspect the gun to prove that you are in compliance (i.e., you still own it). This is not going to give them unrestricted access to your home.

http://www.atf.gov
Not sure if they have it on the website or not, but its a start.

SouthpawShootr.....Thanks for info. Ain't it a shame that %99 of us want to comply with what's legal, but our government makes the fog surrounding gun ownership an almost (and certainly in this case) impossible quagmire to swim through. I've got a Bushy Carbine I can put 27 front handgrips on, but the Carbon 97 I had not a 1. Sold it after burning myself 30 times. Something a forward grip would have prevented.

he did say that for the purpose that i intend to use it for,playing around and blasting milk jugs and such,and this was his personal opinion on the subject , that i should not worry about getting taken down by the BATF for it,

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I strongly recommend that you completely disregard this little piece of advice. This smacks of personal opinion and if you don't have it in writing, signed by somebody in authority, this agent's assurances aren't worth a damn. Maybe this particular agent wouldn't bust you for it (I'm sure there are some cool guys in the ATF who are willing to cut you some slack), but he can't speak for everybody you come across. It's like saying "sure drop that auto-sear in your semi, I won't mess with you unless you're committing a serious crime." All the while he's reaching for his cuffs.

I also would take off the front grip.


I just wouldn't take those chances