80% Arms "Easy Jig"

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Brass2grass said:
Pistols and AR lowers are registered in every state. Long guns and shot guns are the only exception.
Click to expand...

Wrong, maybe in some states, but not every state. You might want to recheck your information.




pdsmith505 - -About the jig for the AR - thanks for the review. I had though of getting one of the jigs from Modulus, but heard the 80% arms jigs are nicer/more robust.

The Jack Squat flat's look interesting, I don't know if I would want to jb weld one though. There was another idea out there that one could do a screw together AR lower. A pdf with the prints can be found at http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uplo...10-17_131429_AR_15_Scratch_Built_Receiver.pdf
Here is a pic (found online) of one.
screw-together-lower.jpg
 
Started on the second lower in this jig. A new, 1/2 hp drill press (first was done on a tiny 1/6th machine) has helped out a bunch. The little one did the job... but it was frustrating.

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One lesson learned from the first go-around was to stop guessing at "1/4 of a hash" as listed on the instructions. For each pass I'm advancing the cut by 1/16" as measured on the router.

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The second lesson is to complete the entire pocket before moving on to a finishing cut. This way, if the router does get away from me, it will be less likely to gouge deep enough to affect the finished FCG pocket.

UFsEPP0nW38edGfaF3qpTbM9LbsgAMuvD4AzZogh-Fg=w500-h889-no.jpg

I stopped for the night about 3/4 through the FCG pocket. Tomorrow, when I reach the point where the router has no drill hole to start in (final depth), I will stop, set up for the trigger hole, and drill again. This will give me a place to start the router without having to manually plunge into the lower. Since the walls will still be rough cut, any tolerance error from swapping plates shouldn't matter.
 
After the debate Over selling/registering/marking receivers, I shot an email to the ATF. Here is there response.

Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). This is in response to your email in which you inquired about making a firearm.

Firearms may be lawfully made by persons who do not hold a manufacturer's license under the GCA provided they are NOT FOR SALE OR DISTRIBUTION and the maker is NOT PROHIBITED from receiving or possessing firearms.

In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and advance approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for the official use of a Federal, State or local government agency (18 U.S.C. § 922(o),(r); 26 U.S.C. § 5822; 27 CFR §§ 478.39, 479.62, and 479.105). Please be certain that you adhere to the definition of "pistol" provided below to ensure that you are not making an NFA firearm, which would require registration and the tax stamp.

Additionally, although markings are not required on firearms manufactured for personal use (excluding NFA firearms), owners are recommended to conspicuously place or engrave a serial number and / or other marks of identification to aid in investigation or recovery by State or local law enforcement officials in the event of a theft or loss of the privately owned firearm.

There may be State laws that pertain to your questions. ATF has no jurisdiction over State laws. You need to contact your State's Attorney General's Office (a list of their offices is available online at www.naag.org) to inquire about firearms laws and possible restrictions in your State.

Should you have additional questions, please contact your local ATF office. A listing of ATF office phone numbers can be found at: http://www.atf.gov/content/contact-us/local-atf-office.

Regards,
David
Firearms Industry Programs Branch, ATF
 
Brass2grass - so how does the ATF response correlate with what you had posted earlier?

Brass2grass said:
Pistols and AR lowers are registered in every state. Long guns and shot guns are the only exception.
Click to expand...

Also notice in the ATF response that markings aren't required but they recommend it to aid in investigation or recovery. So pistols and AR lowers aren't registered in every state. Whether one is making an AR or a pistol, marking it isn't required unless the state one lives in has a law that says otherwise. :)
 
sniper69 said:
Brass2grass - so how does the ATF response correlate with what you had posted earlier?



Also notice in the ATF response that markings aren't required but they recommend it to aid in investigation or recovery. So pistols and AR lowers aren't registered in every state. Whether one is making an AR or a pistol, marking it isn't required unless the state one lives in has a law that says otherwise. :)
Click to expand...


I never said markings were required unless registering a weapon. Then they have to be marked but in order to register you have to be a licensee. The email I sent them was in regards to whether or not you could sell an 80% lower once it has been completed. And if you could sell one, did it have to be registered. The short answer. No you can't sell them.
 
After the debate Over selling/registering/marking receivers, I shot an email to the ATF. Here is there response.
Click to expand...

There is no debate, just you refusing to listen to people who were giving you the facts.

You could have saved the trouble of writing a letter by simply googling their FAQ on the matter:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing

#6

Furthermore, it is lawful to sell a home build in the same way you transfer any title I firearm. You simply cannot manufacture with the intent to sell/distribute without a license, the same way you cannot purchase complete firearms with the intent to resell without an FFL (note: this is not quite the same as buying with the intent to sell/trade if the value increases in time).

There is also no finite figure on how many personal weapons, home build or otherwise, that you may sell as an unlicensed individual; it really is a matter of being honest with yourself about what you're doing. If you buy a used gun and someone offers you well more than you paid the next day, it's a legitimate private sale. If you buy 20 Hi Points and resell them at a 30% profit in private sales, that is dealing without a license. Likewise, if you build an AR on an 80% receiver and later decide you don't like it anymore, you can sell it. But if you buy and complete a pile of 80% receivers and sell them privately as complete receivers, you are in violation of the law.
 
After the debate Over selling/registering/marking receivers, I shot an email to the ATF. Here is there response.
Click to expand...

Much like polls, your wife's clothing choices, and the answer to life the universe and everything, the question being asked is as, if not more, important than the answer.

I imagine you shot an email out asking, "Is it legal if sell a firearm I manufactured myself?" The similar, but significantly different, question is, "Is it legal if I build a firearm for my own personal use but later decide to sell it?"

Without knowing what question you specifically asked the ATF, the answer might as well be 42.

But, hey, whatever. I have yet to sell any gun, much less one of the ones I've made myself, and I don't plan on starting anytime soon.
 
Alirghty, I'm gonna try to drag this train back on it's tracks and move on to futher analysis of the 80% Arms Easy Jig. Sorry for the large pictures.

I left off having gotten about 75% through milling the FCG pocket following my modified plan. Turns out that drilling the trigger hole prior to the final depth cut is a great idea.

20150415_122418.jpg

After finishing the FCG pocket, with much better success, I moved on to the rear take down pin pocket. Here's where things went awry, but not because of the jig. The locking mechanism on the collar of the router snapped! Turns out plastic wasn't a good choice. So I went off to Lowes to return/replace the dang thing. They didn't have any more of that model (DWE6000), but they did have the model better (DWP611). For $40 more you get:

1) Speed control. Holy god slowing down the end mill does wonders for the finish (as you'll see below). 16k RPM is still blazing fast for an end mill, but it's better than 31k RPM.

2) Metal construction instead of plastic.

If you go this way to do your 80% lowers, don't mess around with the cheaper model. Get the DWP611.

20150415_160611.jpg

The finish was SO much nicer in the take down pin area because of the better router that I went back to the FCG pocket and used the little bit of slack in the jig's tolerances to do a finish cut there too. Here is the result:

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It's not a factory finish, but it's darn close. The hardest part of maintaining a good finish with the router is getting into the corners without it bouncing around. Considering that you are using a jig, drill press, and router to machine out a lower, I'd say it's perfect.

80% Arms Easy Jig - 9/10
DeWalt DWP611 Router - 9/10
DeWalt DWE6000 router - 3/10
 
PD, sorry for the late return, I somehow forgot that I had posted in here.

I found that taking more passes and removing less material per pass helped me avoid the router jumping around too much. Though I am using a Bosch router so it may be different for you. It takes longer but the end result is better.
 
Final update on the second lower I did. Etched at home, professionally cerakoted, and color filled in select areas at home:

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Not too shabby.
 
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I just picked up one of the 80% arms easy jigs. Would you still recommend the DWP611 router? Also any experience with a polymer lower in the jig (I noticed on one site I had read on showing the jig would work with both aluminum and polymer lowers).
 
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