10mm issue...

[Rodentman]

I reload 10mm (among others). I have never bought any 10mm ammo.

I reloaded a batch of 100 with mixed headstamp brass. 180g XTP's, 7.5 g Unique at 1.25 OAL. I plunk tested a few rounds in my DW 10mm 1911 before heading to the range. Passed test. About 3 rounds into each mag I had a failure to feed and the failed rounds did NOT pass the plunk test. Assuming this was the reason the pistol would not go into battery, I ask why. Also a few rounds would hang up on the feed ramp so they never got to chamber. Very frustrating.

I ran the 100 rounds through the dies in one sitting so shouldn't they all be the same dimensions? I know that some brass is thicker than others, but wouldn't the crimp die (separate step) even this out?
I had no trouble with these rounds in my G40, which didn't surprise me since I find that Glock bbls have "looser" dimensions.

I didn't notice any bullet setback visually. I didn't measure for it either however.

Any hints on what may be the issue?

 

[captain awesome]

I attribute it to mixed head stamp brass/various lot #s. it happens to me once in a while also. 9mm comes to mind, I bought a 5 gallon bucket full of range pick up brass, it has been the most problematic brass I have ever loaded.. brass quality and design ranges wildley with that one. I just chuck em in the rejects to pull down bucket or scrap bucket when something is abnormal.

 

[Rodentman]

Perhaps I am naïve thinking that running thru the dies makes all dimensions equal across brass mfrs. I CAN see the crimp issue though. Still, shouldn't the rounds run? Guess some guns are fussier, that I can accept. Frustrating though. I have 6 10mm autos and 2 revolvers. Maybe I shouldn't have so many...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I had no trouble with these rounds in my G40, which didn't surprise me since I find that Glock bbls have "looser" dimensions.

The looser dimensions probable explains the lack of feeding problems, not the other way around.

Running brass through a die does not guarantee all the brass will be uniform. If the brass is work hardened it will not hold the sizing as well as softer brass and some brass will snap back more than others. Your DW probably has a nice tight chamber so it will show you where the variations are. Additionally, on the feed problem, some bullet profiles will feed better than others. Add all these small things together and you could have problems.

Play with the seating depth a little and see if that helps. Of course if you're up near the top of the pressure curve you will need to drop back on the charge weight when seating the bullet deeper. If your problems persist you might want to buy a box of 180gr XTP Hornady ammo and see if there are any problems with it. Since you are using that bullet you will gain good information. If there are no problems with the factory ammo try mimicking their dimensions and see if that works.

 

[SamT1]

Tune your extractor that’s tends to be an issue with my 1911’s. May be impossible with mixed brass. You may see if a common manufacturer is to blame and segregate those.

I run all my ammo through a Lee FCD on the last stage. That insures 100% plunk and you don’t even have to check them. If your crimping with the seating die inconsistencies in brass length and thickness are killer.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have 6 10mm autos and 2 revolvers. Maybe I shouldn't have so many...

Blaspheme!

 

[Dudedog]

Possible the mixed headstamp brass was fired in an unsupported chamber and expanded to where the sizing die does not reach.
Just for fun maybe pull the bullet on on of the problem rounds and see if the case alone will plunk.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I'm pretty inexperienced in general with loading, and have only loaded 250 rounds of 10mm to date. But all the data I've seen indicates 1.26 as a max COAL.

Could loading them to 1.25 contribute to brass inconsistency issues, and maybe cause some of the problems?

Maybe not plunk test issues, but feed hang ups?

 

[ATLDave]

I load a LOT of 10mm, and almost all of it between 1.25 and 1.26 COAL. That shouldn't be a source of the problem.

The "mixed headstamp brass" is probably the source of the difficulty. Rounds can have difficulty chambering for all sorts of reasons. There can be dings or bulges that even plunk testing won't reliably catch that cause difficulty during firing. I case gauge every round when I really care about them working. Every round.

A lot of 10mm brass you find has been used hard - fired with high pressure rounds out of somewhat-unsupported chambers and aggressive slide velocities ripping at the rim. IMO, it's well worth sorting by headstamp for this application.

 

[Rodentman]

Thanks for the good advice. I have a Lee FCD and may try that. Yes, headstamps. I think my Speer manual advises sorting 9mm by headstamp.

Quite a few variables present themselves compared to factory ammo. I still won't buy 10mm though.

 

[ATLDave]

10mm is a handloader’s cartirdge!

 

[WestKentucky]

My guess is that the various headstamps also have varying lengths. Your dies are crimping at the same spot every time and sometimes there’s not a case there to crimp.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I load a LOT of 10mm, and almost all of it between 1.25 and 1.26 COAL. That shouldn't be a source of the problem.

The "mixed headstamp brass" is probably the source of the difficulty. Rounds can have difficulty chambering for all sorts of reasons. There can be dings or bulges that even plunk testing won't reliably catch that cause difficulty during firing. I case gauge every round when I really care about them working. Every round.

A lot of 10mm brass you find has been used hard - fired with high pressure rounds out of somewhat-unsupported chambers and aggressive slide velocities ripping at the rim. IMO, it's well worth sorting by headstamp for this application.

Is there a particular brand case gauge you'd recommend?

 

[ATLDave]

I use the Wilson one, but I use Lyman in some other cartridges. Either would be good.

 

[sparkyv]

Rodentman, have you successfully loaded up the 180gr XTPs? I ask because what 460Shooter says may be your issue. You may need to seat deeper so it will feed in this particular DW firearm.

But all the data I've seen indicates 1.26 as a max COAL. Could loading them to 1.25 contribute to brass inconsistency issues, and maybe cause some of the problems? Maybe not plunk test issues, but feed hang ups?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Make sure when the ram is up against the sizing die that it is actually compressed against it a little. I ran into this with 9mm once and I had a small gap between my die and the bottom of my resizing die and it caused me some issues. It was with cases shot out of unsupported brass, they had a very slight bulge above the web of the case but these cases usually wedge themselves in the barrel so extraction is pretty hard when you try to rack them out.

Try what Dudedog suggested, take one of the offending rounds and knock the bullet out of it and try the plunk test with it.

As RC Model always said if it doesn't want to go in the barrel in the plunk test then color it black with a sharpie marker and force in in a little, knock it back out, then look to see where the marker is rubbed off. This will tell you if it is the rim, the head, or anything in between that is causing the issue.
If the case passes the plunk test however, than it has to be a bullet seating issue or the cases need trimmed because your barrel may be short chambered.

If the bullet is seated crooked from using a flat nosed seating stem, to seat round nosed bullets, that will put a bulge in the side of the case at the base of the bullet. You can't always see the bulges but your barrel sure knows.

You could take one of the rounds that won't chamber and color the entire thing from top to bottom with Dykem blue or a sharpy marker and push it by hand into the barrel, push it back out with cleaning rod or something, and see where the rubbing is. You could do that while you waiting for you inspection gauge to get there. The gauge may not prove anything to you anyways unless you put every one of the rounds you load through it. Some here do, I do not.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Rodentman, have you successfully loaded up the 180gr XTPs? I ask because what 460Shooter says may be your issue. You may need to seat deeper so it will feed in this particular DW firearm.

My post was more of a question than a suggestion and I was asking if seating the bullets too deeply could be causing the issues. I've heard that some pistols don't like short cartridges for feeding.

The only thing I can think of that would cause a failure to pass a plunk test is if some of the brass had an internal taper to it and seating too deeply was bulging the case. I wasn't under the impression 10mm cases were tapered though.

So listen to Altdave, not me. I'm too new to offer any sound advice. I wish I hadn't muddied the waters.

 

[sparkyv]

It seems to me that it's not a matter of the round plunking into the barrel, but rather it seems to be a matter of the round being able to make the turn from the mag, up the ramp, and into the chamber. The bullet nose shape affects this. I got this image from the 10mm-firearms forum, where a much more in depth explanation can be found. You may have to seat deeper Rodentman to make this projectile feed properly in the DW...of course then you'll have to adjust your load!

 

[Rodentman]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am planning to run another hundred this week. BTW the DW barrel is marked "match." Maybe this means it is made to tighter tolerances and thus can be problematic for the variables inherent in reloads. I have a Lyman case gauge and all the resized brass drops right in. I ran it thru the GRX die (some took some real effort, even after full length resizing in the Hornady die.) I will check the setting of the sizing die.

 

[Rule3]

Hornady seats their 180 gr XTP for 10mm at 1.260.

You do not need a case gauge Load some with ALL the different headstamps you have and plunk test them in YOUR barrel.

Do all brands of brass work? Go from there.

Sometime the bullet needs to be seated longer, sometimes shorter, sometimes it is your taper crip either too much or too little. You have to mess with it.

I have a DW Valor in 45 ACP and all my ammo with mixed brass feeds fine.