125gr vs 158gr 38SPL.

[Iroquois]

The most accurate loads I have made for 38sp are 148gr HBWC and 148gr WC in front of a little Bullseye. Pretty sure that was a LE round for a few decades.

Agreed. 148gr HBWC (with Universal). Great target round with low recoil and accuracy.

 

[Dudedog]

Thanks for the link! I figured the extreme cause cabelas has them on sale right now and will be going there this weekend.

sounds dangerous, If I had a Cabela;s I could drive to I would be in trouble.

 

[ray15]

I'm seriously thinking about it right now. I only have 100pc of brass for this gun and don't shoot it that much. I have to get tires and a front end alignment tomorrow so if it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg ill put an order in. Having 1k bullets might give me an excuse to buy a full size 38spl.

Just get a 357 mag. Then you can shoot both, and have twice the fun. Maybe three times.

BTW Graf's is closing out their PPU brass. I bought 600 pieces of 38 special for $8.79/100. $7.95 flat-rate shipping. Nice brass, too.

Being clearance is there something wrong with them?

They are termed cosmetic blems, in that you may find some staining. I've inspected ~15,000 of them and most bags I don't even notice a stained one. The worst bag I examined maybe had 20 bullets out of 1000 stained to a readily noticeable degree, and it's always on the nose rather than the bearing surface. Every single one I've measured has measured as advertised and the weight, length and plating are consistent.

The hollowpoint versions I scored have their thick plating also, and I have roll crimped them in the W296 load and driven them to 1,500fps without issue. I use a normal taper crimp in the 38 loads. I also have their 9mm 115, 124 and 135gr plated hollowpoints and they work great too.

 

[hdwhit]

My grandmother was partial to the 148 grain lead wadcutter and that's all she would shoot.

When I inherited her pistol, I decided I'd rather shoot jacketed bullets and since she was at the higher end of the range, I went with 158 grain bullets.

 

[Axis II]

In my neck of the woods
a good four wheel alignment will cost about 2/3rds of one tire

we average about $75 but what I'm worried about is needing parts like tie rods or ball joints cause the trucks 9yo and never had anything done to the front end.

 

[Axis II]

sounds dangerous, If I had a Cabela;s I could drive to I would be in trouble.

TBH I don't spend that much money there as I think they price gouge a little bit and my store is geared toward fishing and non hunting/shooting related stuff. I was going to go there today to check the bargain cave and maybe grab some long johns and V max bullets.

 

[Axis II]

Just get a 357 mag. Then you can shoot both, and have twice the fun. Maybe three times.

BTW Graf's is closing out their PPU brass. I bought 600 pieces of 38 special for $8.79/100. $7.95 flat-rate shipping. Nice brass, too.
They are termed cosmetic blems, in that you may find some staining. I've inspected ~15,000 of them and most bags I don't even notice a stained one. The worst bag I examined maybe had 20 bullets out of 1000 stained to a readily noticeable degree, and it's always on the nose rather than the bearing surface. Every single one I've measured has measured as advertised and the weight, length and plating are consistent.

The hollowpoint versions I scored have their thick plating also, and I have roll crimped them in the W296 load and driven them to 1,500fps without issue. I use a normal taper crimp in the 38 loads. I also have their 9mm 115, 124 and 135gr plated hollowpoints and they work great too.

Thanks for the info. I found some once fired rem 38spl brass and that stuff was so soft I couldn't feel it size or the bullet seat and I could smash the mouth with my fingers so ive been running starline. I will look into the PPU though.

Oh, and 357 will be the ticket but if I found a killer deal on a model 10 like my buddy did for under $300 in mint condition I will break.

 

[ray15]

I have a few hundred pieces of RP brass I don't have any issue with. Picked up another 50 yesterday (revolver brass is somewhat rare at my range, which is why I bought the PPU). The PPU brass is softer than the RP I have, so you may want to stick with Starline. I actually like the softer brass as to me it helps the feel.. heh. To each his own.

I use Starline in my .357 stuff, as I've only found a few pieces at the range.

 

[Axis II]

I have a few hundred pieces of RP brass I don't have any issue with. Picked up another 50 yesterday (revolver brass is somewhat rare at my range, which is why I bought the PPU). The PPU brass is softer than the RP I have, so you may want to stick with Starline. I actually like the softer brass as to me it helps the feel.. heh. To each his own.

I use Starline in my .357 stuff, as I've only found a few pieces at the range.

mine may have been more than once fired. I didn't trust it and the primer pockets felt loose too so I smashed all the mouths and put in the scrap bucket.

 

[ray15]

The primers fit and feel terrific on the PPU. I feel the additional ductility helps there. The are tight but still slide in easily and securely. Maybe it will wear out faster because of it, I've only reloaded it a few times. I also feel the extra ductility helps with case mouth tension. But in any event since you have a Cabelas to walk into you can just pick up a bag of Starline, which is probabaly what I'd do in your case (no pun intended).

 

[Walkalong]

Picked up another 50 yesterday (revolver brass is somewhat rare at my range, which is why I bought the PPU). The PPU brass is softer than the RP I have, so you may want to stick with Starline. I actually like the softer brass as to me it helps the feel.. heh. To each his own.

Yea, I use it all and have no issues. You can feel a difference in some brands but it all out shoots me. I have been fortunate to find several hundred .38 Spl cases at the range over the years. I have trimmed about 900 plus that I am using because lengths were/are all over the place. I have more than that stuck away. Early on I bought two boxes of 100 each Starline brass and did some accuracy/numbers testing with it vs range brass. I could not shoot the difference, and the ES & SD numbers were basically the same. I did have some neck tension issues with some brass, but a new RCBS carbide sizer to replace the two brands I had tried fixed that.

BTW Graf's is closing out their PPU brass. I bought 600 pieces of 38 special for $8.79/100. $7.95 flat-rate shipping. Nice brass, too.

Thta's a good deal for someone needing .38 Spl brass. The PPU I have picked up is loading/shooting just fine. Soft vs hard isn't the only thing that determines case life.

 

[Axis II]

Yea, I use it all and have no issues. You can feel a difference in some brands but it all out shoots me. I have been fortunate to find several hundred .38 Spl cases at the range over the years. I have trimmed about 900 plus that I am using because lengths were/are all over the place. I have more than that stuck away. Early on I bought two boxes of 100 each Starline brass and did some accuracy/numbers testing with it vs range brass. I could not shoot the difference, and the ES & SD numbers were basically the same. I did have some neck tension issues with some brass, but a new RCBS carbide sizer to replace the two brands I had tried fixed that.

Thta's a good deal for someone needing .38 Spl brass. The PPU I have picked up is loading/shooting just fine. Soft vs hard isn't the only thing that determines case life.

Well you guys talked me into it! Just starting out with pistol I said eh, this stuff feels funny so tossed it. My brand new starline I got from midway on sale was all over the place in OAL as well as the Remington and my little lee trimmer cut that stuff like a hot knife through butter and that was the final toss it moment. I'm wondering if the difference I felt with starline and Remington was because the starline was +p rated so harder?

 

[Walkalong]

The cheapest I see new .38 Spl brass at Midway right now (Including "sale" brass) is 18 cents apiece. That would make 9 cents apiece for PPU a no brainer.

 

[ray15]

Yes, and they have the PPU brass in a lot of calibers, some fairly obscure. Stuff like 38S&W and 32S&W long that surprised me. I gather when it's gone it's gone, but they must have had a pile of it to start with.

 

[Slamfire]

I found that all my Airweights were adjusted to shoot to point of impact at 25 yards with 125 grain bullets. Older snubbies universally shot to point of aim with 158 grain bullets, but as per conversation with S&W, S&W has adjusted the sights of new production revolvers for 125 grain bullets because these rounds are the most popular for self defense.

All of my chronograph testing, which the target is at 25 yards, was conducted with a M637 or M638, because, I can thumb cock the things. My M642, is DAO only and I am a terrible double action shooter. I might have hit my chronograph!

I have included Blue Dot data to show that Blue Dot is a poor choice in the 38 Special. Extreme spreads in the hundreds of feet per second show, even though the average velocity appears fine, that this powder is burning inconsistently at these low pressures.

I have not included any Green Dot data, but that powder performed very well in the 38 Special.

I decided that 4.0 grains Bullseye was accurate, shot to point of aim, and was good enough for practice loads.

S&W M637-2  2" barrel 


125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.0 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 
9-Apr-06 T = 59 °F    

Ave Vel = 760.4
Std Dev = 27.33
ES = 82.1
High  = 798.9
Low  = 716.8
N = 19

More or less Point of aim ,Surprising recoil    
  

125 Valiant BBRNFP 4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed cases WSP 
9-Apr-06 T = 64 °F  

Ave Vel = 827.9
Std Dev = 23.21
ES = 92.27
High  = 879.4
Low  = 787.1
N = 20
 

Maybe a little low, Windage centered    

125 Valiant BBRNFP 6.5 grs Blue Dot Mixed cases WSP 
9-Apr-06 T = 64 °F    

Ave Vel = 632.6  
Std Dev = 77.74     
ES = 185.3     
High  = 737.6     
Low  = 552.2     
N = 5    

low, right, about 4 OC

S&W M638-3 Airweight Bodyguard   


148 LWC Valiant 2.7 grs Bullseye thrown Mixed Brass WSP
18-Mar-07 T = 52 °F   
    
Ave Vel = 611.6  
Std Dev = 22.04    
ES = 75.92     
High  = 648.1     
Low  = 572.2    
N = 25   

little high    

158 LSWC 3.5 grs Bullseye Mixed brass WSP  
18-Mar-07 T = 52 °F   

Ave Vel = 670.7  
Std Dev = 17.52    
ES = 65.4    
High  = 697.5     
Low  = 632.1    
N = 12   

4-6" High, accurate    
 

158 JHP 3.5 grs Bullseye Mixed brass WSP 
18-Mar-07 T = 52 °F     
 
Ave Vel = 611.1  
Std Dev = 9.64    
ES = 28.05    
High  = 626.3    
Low  = 598.3    
N = 9   

4"-6" High @ 25 yards, accurate

 

[Walkalong]

Stuff like 38S&W and 32S&W long

Hmm....... need to check it out.

 

[HankC]

I haven't load any handguns but it is interesting that folks like heavier bullets, such as 147gr, in 9mm but lighter bullets, 125gr, in 30SPL!