14.7" barrel length confusion

[ChCx2744]

Hello. I was looking at some AR uppers recently and saw them in various lengths: 14.7", 16", 20", etc. I understand that the legal length of the barrel must be at least 16". I've heard some people say that people buy 14.5" barrels and affix a permanent flash hider or some other device on the end of the barrel to meet the legal requirements. My question is, does the 14.7" barrels already have these devices attached and is that the overall length of both the barrel and device, or is that the length without the device and just the barrel itself? To be specific, I am looking at Palmetto State Armory's website and it doesn't state if the 14.7" barrels are the lengths of the entire barrel + end device together or just the barrel itself, excluded the extra length of the device. Any help is appreciated, thanks.

 

[ZGunner]

Most cases I've seen with pinned or welded flash suppressors the'll market it as the combination of barrel and muzzle device. (ie. 14.5" barrel + 1.5" pinned flash suppressor = 16" total barrel length)

 

[helotaxi]

The 14.7 is the barrel length. The muzzle device takes it out to 16". It can be ordered with or without the muzzle device pinned and welded. If you have the paperwork and tax stamp for the SBR, pinning and welding isn't required.

 

[imac98374]

14.7 is for people who want to permanently affix an A2 flashhider and have a barrel length >16 inches. (standard 14.5 inch M4 barrel with permanent A2 hider is <16 inches.) 14.7 is for people who want something that looks like an M4 but don't want to deal with the hassles of short barreled rifle ownership.

 

[MachIVshooter]

14.7 is for people who want something that looks like an M4 but don't want to deal with the hassles of short barreled rifle ownership.

This.

Unless you're wanting something shorter than an M4, going this route makes the most sense. How many of us regularly change out flash supressors?

BTW, if they're blind pinned, they can be changed out, but it requires drilling, and the drilled flash supressor cannot be reinstalled on the short barrel unless you close up the hole you drilled to get the pin out. Basically, it has to require more than simple hand tools to remove the flash hider on a rifle that requires it to make the title I regs.

I opted for welding on my mini-14:

 

[wally]

How many of us regularly change out flash supressors?

True enough but there are a fair number of times I've removed and replaced one to add a free float tube or change the gas block. If you go this route make sure you are 100% happy with what you have between the barrel nut and flash suppressor.

I don't think a blind pin actually meets the torque requirements that define "permanent" should you some how give the feds probable cause to be looking at your guns.

There was a thread on this in the NFA forum a while back.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I don't think a blind pin actually meets the torque requirements that define "permanent" should you some how give the feds probable cause to be looking at your guns.

ATF says welded, silver soldered, brazed or blind pinned is permanent. Unless something has changed in the last couple of years. I haven't checked recently, since I have not had such a project in mind.

No, using a teeny-tiny wire gauge mild steel or aluminum pin wouldn't cut it, but a normal (1/8"+) tool steel pin would. You'd round the flats well before shearing it.

 

[Redlg155]

As the .7 is concerned, I have seen where many manufacturers go slightly longer to ensure they meet the minimum standard. 16.1 " barrels fairly common. 14.7 plus a slightly undersized muzzlebrake/flash supressor that should be 1.5 will still keep you legal.

 

[MachIVshooter]

16.1 " barrels fairly common. 14.7 plus a slightly undersized muzzlebrake/flash supressor that should be 1.5 will still keep you legal.

Yup, err on the side of caution. I allow for a 1/4" "ruler discrepancy" whenever I shorten a rifle or shotgun. Though I have never heard of anyone being charged for a 15.9" barrel (unless ATF was after them and could find nothing else), It's not worth the risk. 0.25" Makes no practical difference, but a huge legal one.

 

[wally]

ATF says welded, silver soldered, brazed or blind pinned is permanent. Unless something has changed in the last couple of years. I haven't checked recently, since I have not had such a project in mind.

I'm only reporting what I'd read in the NFA forum a while back when this discussion came up. If it comes down to it, they seem to require that the barrel/upper break before the "permanent" attachment comes free -- it apparently is a destructive test.

I know plenty of builders with blind pinned extensions on their barrels and have not heard of any jack-booted thugs kicking in their doors to demand a "permanency" test.

The main issue with all the silly "illeagal" firearm feature laws is if you've done something that gives them probable cause and they really are after you for anything, these are the violations they can "easily" prove.

OTOH if I were on your jury, it'd be a case of "jury nullification".


Edit: Here is the link to the thread in the NFA forum:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=630907

Consensus is blind hardened steel pin is fine if the hole is welded over and it can stand 200 ft-lbs of torque.

 

[helotaxi]

Do they replace your barrel after performing their destructive inspection? Somehow I doubt it.

 

[ChCx2744]

So I guess I'll look into just getting the 16" one to be safe...lol