I have GI size Colt 1911. My question is what poundage recoil springs do I buy if I want to shoot +P vs. standard pressure ammo. There doesn't seen to be much velocity difference between both ammo types, but I don't know if different spring tension is optimal for each. Who should I order spare springs from?
1911 recoil spring question.....
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jakk280rem
Member
Buy a xp pak from Wolff. It will contain factory and extra power recoil and firing pin springs. Likely, you won't need much over 18. And even then only if you feed it a steady diet of +P loads.
The only function of the recoil spring is to return the slide to battery. Nothing to do with a gun's ability to handle +P. That extra power spring also slams your slide forward harder than the gun was designed for.
I know it's fashionable to swap out springs. I'm no firearms genius but think that John Browning knew a lot more about about specs for a 1911 than most people on a forum.
I know it's fashionable to swap out springs. I'm no firearms genius but think that John Browning knew a lot more about about specs for a 1911 than most people on a forum.
rskent
Member
I use 16 lb springs.
AJumbo
Member
My RIA "GI" model runs with a reduced radius firing pin stop, 23 lb mainspring, 14 lb recoil spring (Mr. Browning called it an "action" spring), extra-power firing pin spring, all from Wolff or Ismi. My magazines are mostly Checkmates with 11 lb springs. 16 lb action springs work very well, but the gun seems to feed more smoothly with the 14. I swap out my springs once a year. I have never used buffers, but might if I was shooting a lot of +P ammunition. I tend to stick with 230 gr. standard velocity rounds.
Using a heavier action spring will do nothing to help the pistol handle +P rounds; using one to "help" the feeding process will accelerate wear, and may actually defeat the purpose if it makes the slide outrun the magazine.
I guess I'm one of those "run it the way it was designed" Luddites.
Using a heavier action spring will do nothing to help the pistol handle +P rounds; using one to "help" the feeding process will accelerate wear, and may actually defeat the purpose if it makes the slide outrun the magazine.
I guess I'm one of those "run it the way it was designed" Luddites.
tark
Member
GRIZZ22, I have heard that many times, and I do not believe it for one instant. If it is true, why do old autos beat themselves to death with their weak, worn out springs? I have seen videos of 1911s being fired with no recoil spring installed. The gun handled it nicely, with no damage. For one shot. Or maybe two, or even ten. I would like to see that done a thousand times, along side a springed gun, and compare wear at the end of the test.
I'm guessing the pistol with the recoil spring will show no wear, while the springless gun will be junk, if it even goes the distance. If the springs only job is to return the slide to battery answer me this; An 11Lb spring in a .45 cal Wadcutter gun will return the slide to battery, most of the time, in any 1911 it is installed in. So if it is strong enough to do that job, why does anyone make heaver springs? Or this; Why doesn't light Wad cutter ammo function in a gun with an 18# spring?
Because the 18# spring provides more resistance than the light load can overcome. The recoil spring provides resistance for the slide to overcome, so it won't crash into the frame at too high a speed. That function is equally important as returning the slide to battery. I've seen too many damaged guns in Les' shop because they were firing hardball in a wad gun, to think otherwise.
I'm guessing the pistol with the recoil spring will show no wear, while the springless gun will be junk, if it even goes the distance. If the springs only job is to return the slide to battery answer me this; An 11Lb spring in a .45 cal Wadcutter gun will return the slide to battery, most of the time, in any 1911 it is installed in. So if it is strong enough to do that job, why does anyone make heaver springs? Or this; Why doesn't light Wad cutter ammo function in a gun with an 18# spring?
Because the 18# spring provides more resistance than the light load can overcome. The recoil spring provides resistance for the slide to overcome, so it won't crash into the frame at too high a speed. That function is equally important as returning the slide to battery. I've seen too many damaged guns in Les' shop because they were firing hardball in a wad gun, to think otherwise.
JohnnyFlake
Member
Recoil springs have a lot to do with reducing recoil to a point where the slide does not slam up against the frame and over time, causing damage!
here is some info posted of Ed Browns Site:
Technical Information
Notes:
Factory 1911 recoil springs are 16 pounds in 45 ACP, 14 pounds in 38 Super, 9mm Luger, 38 Special Midrange, Colt Ace 22 conversion kit, and 19 pounds in 40 S&W.
The Delta Elite 10mm uses a dual factory spring rated at 23 pounds. Single recoil springs require that the Delta Elite recoil spring guide be replaced with a standard 45 ACP recoil spring guide.
Recoil springs fit over a pistol's guide rod and control how the pistol's slide functions.
In general, heavy loads need heavy springs and lighter loads need lighter springs.
There is no hard and fast rule as to how much "Spring" a pistol needs. Too light a spring and the pistol opens and closes early and hard, increasing the felt recoil and battering the frame. Too heavy a spring and the slide is hard to open and may not cycle completely, jamming the pistol.
Shooters who are using +P ammunition or self defense ammunition will likely need heavier recoil springs.
Shooters who are using target ammunition may be able to use lighter recoil springs.
Installation requires disassembly and reassembly of the pistol.
here is some info posted of Ed Browns Site:
Technical Information
Notes:
Factory 1911 recoil springs are 16 pounds in 45 ACP, 14 pounds in 38 Super, 9mm Luger, 38 Special Midrange, Colt Ace 22 conversion kit, and 19 pounds in 40 S&W.
The Delta Elite 10mm uses a dual factory spring rated at 23 pounds. Single recoil springs require that the Delta Elite recoil spring guide be replaced with a standard 45 ACP recoil spring guide.
Recoil springs fit over a pistol's guide rod and control how the pistol's slide functions.
In general, heavy loads need heavy springs and lighter loads need lighter springs.
There is no hard and fast rule as to how much "Spring" a pistol needs. Too light a spring and the pistol opens and closes early and hard, increasing the felt recoil and battering the frame. Too heavy a spring and the slide is hard to open and may not cycle completely, jamming the pistol.
Shooters who are using +P ammunition or self defense ammunition will likely need heavier recoil springs.
Shooters who are using target ammunition may be able to use lighter recoil springs.
Installation requires disassembly and reassembly of the pistol.
All due respect to Ed Brown,but the recoil spring has little to nothing to do with how fast or "hard" the pistol opens. Unlock timing is set mechanically, and happens at the same point in slide travel regardless of slide velocity. Additionally the slide's rearward acceleration happens all up front, in it's first little bit of movement. (for all practical purposes before the bullet leaves the barrel. There's a little leftover force from the accelerating gasses after the bullet leaves, but not much.) At that point the recoil spring is at it's least compressed and has the least impact on the slide's rearward travel and velocity.
What a stronger recoil spring can do is decelerate the slide faster (towards the end of the slide travel, when the recoil spring is at it's most compressed.) which can will result in less velocity when the slide hits the frame (Guide rod actually, but whatever). What it will also increase the velocity of the slide as it moves forward, picks up the barrel, and slams the barrels lower lugs into the slide stop cross pin.
Take a look at the area in the frame that the guide rod rests against, then look at the vertical surface of the barrels lower lugs. Which looks better designed to take a hit?
So yes, as we have progressed away from 230grs @ 850FPS, we have tweaked springs (both main and recoil), added buffers, and done all sorts of things to manage slide velocity in both directions. But it's important to remember that both velocities matter and increasing that spring affects much more then just the slide's velocity at it's rearward travel.
tark
Member
Given the choice, I'll go with Ed Brown, or, for that matter, Les Baer.
My old boss for 21 years.
My old boss for 21 years.
Tark, you can believe what you want. Go with whoever you want. Dogmush explained in much more detail than I did and I agree with him 100%.
If you're shooting a gun with no spring or a worn out spring extensively of course you are going to damage the gun. To say otherwise would be silly. There are those that have done all kinds of things because they feel that extra 100 fps is going to make a difference. It's not. If you need something hotter get a gun that shoots a hotter cartridge.
If you're shooting a gun with no spring or a worn out spring extensively of course you are going to damage the gun. To say otherwise would be silly. There are those that have done all kinds of things because they feel that extra 100 fps is going to make a difference. It's not. If you need something hotter get a gun that shoots a hotter cartridge.
LiveLife
Member
After several thousand rounds, 16 lb springs won't be 16 lb springs. 
I consider recoil springs consumable items and replace them when worn. For lighter target loads, I prefer 16 lb Wilson Combat or Wolff Variable Power springs. For full power factory loads, I prefer 18.5 lb springs. I won't get into the discussion of recoil springs but new 16/18.5 lb recoil springs sure does reduce felt recoil and muzzle flip.
Here's what Wilson Combat has to say about recoil springs - http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/1911/a-guide-to-1911-recoil-springs-by-wilson-combat/
I consider recoil springs consumable items and replace them when worn. For lighter target loads, I prefer 16 lb Wilson Combat or Wolff Variable Power springs. For full power factory loads, I prefer 18.5 lb springs. I won't get into the discussion of recoil springs but new 16/18.5 lb recoil springs sure does reduce felt recoil and muzzle flip.
Here's what Wilson Combat has to say about recoil springs - http://blog.wilsoncombat.com/1911/a-guide-to-1911-recoil-springs-by-wilson-combat/
Last edited:
tark
Member
Peace between us on this day GRIZ22
But in your first post you said the recoil springs only job was to return the slide to battery. In your last, you admitted that extensive shooting without the spring would damage the gun. Well, then, it appears to me that the recoil spring DOES have two functions, the second being to slow the rearward velocity of the slide sufficiently so as not to damage the gun. Tousche! (I probably spelled that wrong, but I don't care. I'm English, not French.)
Well, dogmush, I find fault with the first sentence of your first paragraph. "The recoil spring has nothing to do with how fast or "hard" the pistol opens." This would be true IF the spring was exerting no pressure on the slide when in battery at the moment of firing. But the spring is half compressed at the moment of firing and IS exerting pressure on the slide, which will delay , however slightly, the speed at which the slide begins acceleration. It is simple Physics, it cannot be otherwise. Slightly may not be much but you did use an absolute; the word "nothing" !
Your second paragraph, to the best of my knowledge, is absolutely correct in every way. :
Good shooting , both of you
Jonn
But in your first post you said the recoil springs only job was to return the slide to battery. In your last, you admitted that extensive shooting without the spring would damage the gun. Well, then, it appears to me that the recoil spring DOES have two functions, the second being to slow the rearward velocity of the slide sufficiently so as not to damage the gun. Tousche! (I probably spelled that wrong, but I don't care. I'm English, not French.)
Well, dogmush, I find fault with the first sentence of your first paragraph. "The recoil spring has nothing to do with how fast or "hard" the pistol opens." This would be true IF the spring was exerting no pressure on the slide when in battery at the moment of firing. But the spring is half compressed at the moment of firing and IS exerting pressure on the slide, which will delay , however slightly, the speed at which the slide begins acceleration. It is simple Physics, it cannot be otherwise. Slightly may not be much but you did use an absolute; the word "nothing" !
Your second paragraph, to the best of my knowledge, is absolutely correct in every way. :
Good shooting , both of you
Jonn
That's touche tark.
The only function of the recoil spring in the firing cycle is to return the slide to battery. Running anything with worn or missing parts will damage it so that argument is silly.
Run any spring you want. If you think that makes a 1911 capable of shooting rhino roller loads go for it. I said that before.
The only function of the recoil spring in the firing cycle is to return the slide to battery. Running anything with worn or missing parts will damage it so that argument is silly.
Run any spring you want. If you think that makes a 1911 capable of shooting rhino roller loads go for it. I said that before.
Last edited:
JohnnyFlake
Member
This is one of the best articles I have ever read about recoil spring function. It does state that "The recoil spring’s function is returning the gun to battery…not buffering shock. That it does do that is incidental". IMHO, that statement is an Oxymoron and makes no sense. It clearly does buffer the recoil, there is no doubt about that! However, the original intent of the recoil spring was to return the gun to battery, apparently, the fact that it also helps to buffer the recoil was not an intended process! What?
1911 Recoil Spring Information
By John Travis on March 16, 2015 in Gun Talk
1911 recoil
1911 Recoil Spring Information
Back in the day, there was only one spring for the 5-inch 1911 pistol…and it wasn’t identified by “pounds.” Neither was it the now-accepted standard 16 pound spring.
Sometime in the last 30 years, 16 pounds came to be standard, and everybody accepted that figure…because it was close enough for gub’mint work.
Then, along came Bill Wilson’s mandate that we should “tune” the gun to the load by using the strongest spring that would reliably allow the slide to lock…assuming that was an assurance of full travel rearward in recoil….which is wrong, because the slide doesn’t have to reach the impact abutment in order to line up the slidestop with the stop notch.
Not only is hitting the impact abutment an important part of the function, it has to hit hard enough to rebound and give the slide a jump start. If all there is available to accelerate it forward…it may not provide enough speed and momentum to feed and return to battery if all isn’t just so with the feeding phase. The same can be said of the shock buffer, which dampens rebound.
In 1949, Colt introduced the Commander Model. It appeared to be no more than a Government Model with a short slide and barrel…but there are other subtle differences that aren’t apparent to the untrained eye. Most notably, the rails and impact abutment are machined .100 inch further rearward.
This regains a little of the lost slide travel, runup, and space available in the spring tunnel…which is very important because the available space was also reduced on the other end…when the spring is fully compressed by the slide. Too many coils, and the spring stacks solid before the slide is stopped by the impact abutment…which transfers the shock to the barrel bushing through the spring plug…which breaks things in short order…sometimes including the slide.
Colt had to do some slick engineering to get the Commanders to run. One of the things that they did was to wind the spring a little differently, which resulted in a slightly higher rate, allowing space in the tunnel with fewer coils. Although the springs were no different in structure or materials…the slightly wider space between coils allowed enough oomph without the danger going solid…aka “Coil Bind.”
Because of the reduced space with the slide in battery…it also resulted in a heavier preload of the slide than the GM had…which results in increased felt recoil.
Many believe that the Commander’s recoil is sharper because the less massive slide hits the impact abutment harder than the 5-inch slide…but it doesn’t. In fact, with the slightly heavier spring, it hits with less momentum and impact.
Why is that?
Because slide and bullet momentums are assumed to be equal.
The lower mass is moving at a higher speed…but the momentums are the same. Momentum being a function of Mass X Velocity. The increased felt recoil in a Commander is the result of lower weight and higher spring rate. The difference is much less noticeable in the steel-framed Combat Commander…but it’s still there due to the spring.
It’s also become widely accepted that the Commander and Combat Commander “standard” spring is 18 pounds, despite the fact that after testing many hundereds of new pistols over nearly 25 years, I have yet to find a Colt Commander with a spring that tests at 18 pounds. Nor have I been able to find a Colt Government Model spring that tests at 16.
A lot of this reasoning comes from the idea that if we don’t run a high-load spring in our guns, we’re destroying the frame every time we pull the trigger…but that just ain’t so. The recoil spring’s function is returning the gun to battery…not buffering shock. That it does do that is incidental. - IMHO This is an Oxymoron and makes no sense!
A question that often comes up is:
“Can a GM spring become a Commander spring by cutting it shorter?”
The answer is…yes and no. It can be substituted, assuming that the Commander has a standard design recoil system…but because of the wind and the different rate…it won’t be exactly the same. Cutting a GM spring to the Commander’s standard 22.5 coils will result in a spring that’s shorter in free length…which cuts down on the preload in battery somewhat…which really isn’t all that important as long as the spring doesn’t go to free length before the slide is fully in battery and it has enough punch to feed the round and place the gun in battery.
The solution is to cut the spring to 24.5 coils, which leaves enough space in the tunnel without danger of spring bind in every Commander I’ve used it in. Because of the decreased preload space and the tighter compression at full slide travel…the resulting spring load at full travel is right around 16.5 pounds…or about a pound less than a Commander-specific 18 pound spring.
I’ve done this for years, in dozens of my own Commanders…steel or aluminum alloy frames…and in dozens tht belong to other people…without ill effect, and I haven’t bought a “Commander” spring in over 30 years.
One caveat. Be sure to check for coil bind before firing the gun. Specs can vary. Although I haven’t had it happen yet, that doesn’t mean that it can’t. As the wisdom goes: “I only know what I can measure.” A quick test is to install the spring and hand-cycle the slide briskly but not brutally, letting it hit the impact abutment. If you hear a sharp metallic noise…it’s probably good to go. If you hear and/or feel a dull thud or a crunch…it’s in coil bind. Trim a half coil and retest.
So…it won’t be the same spring…but it can be substituted.
This applies to Colt Commanders and faithful clones with 4.25 inch slides and standard recoil systems only.
I stated in my previous post on the topic that the purpose of the “recoil” spring is returning the slide to battery. This seems to cause a little confusion due to Bill Wilson’s advice to use different spring rates to “tune” the gun to the load…with the criteria being to use the heaviest spring that will allow the slide to lock consistently…and the yardstick being how far the brass flies on ejection.
I don’t want to pick on the old watchmaker unduly…but this very often leads to grossly overspringing the gun. There are too many factors involved in ejection distance than just the slide’s velocity when it hits the impact abutment.
Another cry that I hear is that, when firing hot-rod +P ammo, that a heavier spring is needed because of the pressure…or to protect the frame from damage…neither of which has any basis in reality. Like the ever-present shock buff…this seems to be marketing. People who are in the business of selling springs want to…well…sell springs.
To wit:
Convince the customer that he “needs” it…and then sell it to him.
By overspringing the gun, you really aren’t keeping it from breaking. You’re just changing what breaks. Remember that springs work in both directions. A stronger spring means slower rearward, and faster forward. Faster forward….faster than necessary…increases momentum and impact when the slide slams home. That places more impact stress on the lower lug feet…the slidestop crosspin…and the holes in the frame that the pin mounts in. While a good slidestop should endure…sometimes the holes and the lug feet don’t do so well. The impact abutments are designed to absorb impact. The other areas mentioned aren’t. Slip the slidestop pin through the barrel link and swing it to the in-battery position and take note of the tiny area of the lug feet that bear on the pin. That’s what is involved in actually stopping that 18-ounce slide and barrel assembly…driven by the spring.
I’ve seen oversprung Colt LW Commanders egg-shape those holes and crack the frames adjacent to the holes in the bottom with as little as 1500 rounds.
Overspringing also makes the pistol more grip sensitive. That is…more prone to limp-wrist failures to eject unless the gun is gripped firmly. A properly sprung pistol should function when cradled in the hand, barely supported with the thumb and index finger, with maybe the pinky lightly keeping the butt stable. If it won’t function when gripped in that manner, it’s a range queen…not a defensive sidearm.
Overspringing also increases felt recoil rather than softening it. I’ll get into that in Part 3.
Cheers, ladies and laddies.
Related
1911 Recoil Spring Information
By John Travis on March 16, 2015 in Gun Talk
1911 recoil
1911 Recoil Spring Information
Back in the day, there was only one spring for the 5-inch 1911 pistol…and it wasn’t identified by “pounds.” Neither was it the now-accepted standard 16 pound spring.
Sometime in the last 30 years, 16 pounds came to be standard, and everybody accepted that figure…because it was close enough for gub’mint work.
Then, along came Bill Wilson’s mandate that we should “tune” the gun to the load by using the strongest spring that would reliably allow the slide to lock…assuming that was an assurance of full travel rearward in recoil….which is wrong, because the slide doesn’t have to reach the impact abutment in order to line up the slidestop with the stop notch.
Not only is hitting the impact abutment an important part of the function, it has to hit hard enough to rebound and give the slide a jump start. If all there is available to accelerate it forward…it may not provide enough speed and momentum to feed and return to battery if all isn’t just so with the feeding phase. The same can be said of the shock buffer, which dampens rebound.
In 1949, Colt introduced the Commander Model. It appeared to be no more than a Government Model with a short slide and barrel…but there are other subtle differences that aren’t apparent to the untrained eye. Most notably, the rails and impact abutment are machined .100 inch further rearward.
This regains a little of the lost slide travel, runup, and space available in the spring tunnel…which is very important because the available space was also reduced on the other end…when the spring is fully compressed by the slide. Too many coils, and the spring stacks solid before the slide is stopped by the impact abutment…which transfers the shock to the barrel bushing through the spring plug…which breaks things in short order…sometimes including the slide.
Colt had to do some slick engineering to get the Commanders to run. One of the things that they did was to wind the spring a little differently, which resulted in a slightly higher rate, allowing space in the tunnel with fewer coils. Although the springs were no different in structure or materials…the slightly wider space between coils allowed enough oomph without the danger going solid…aka “Coil Bind.”
Because of the reduced space with the slide in battery…it also resulted in a heavier preload of the slide than the GM had…which results in increased felt recoil.
Many believe that the Commander’s recoil is sharper because the less massive slide hits the impact abutment harder than the 5-inch slide…but it doesn’t. In fact, with the slightly heavier spring, it hits with less momentum and impact.
Why is that?
Because slide and bullet momentums are assumed to be equal.
The lower mass is moving at a higher speed…but the momentums are the same. Momentum being a function of Mass X Velocity. The increased felt recoil in a Commander is the result of lower weight and higher spring rate. The difference is much less noticeable in the steel-framed Combat Commander…but it’s still there due to the spring.
It’s also become widely accepted that the Commander and Combat Commander “standard” spring is 18 pounds, despite the fact that after testing many hundereds of new pistols over nearly 25 years, I have yet to find a Colt Commander with a spring that tests at 18 pounds. Nor have I been able to find a Colt Government Model spring that tests at 16.
A lot of this reasoning comes from the idea that if we don’t run a high-load spring in our guns, we’re destroying the frame every time we pull the trigger…but that just ain’t so. The recoil spring’s function is returning the gun to battery…not buffering shock. That it does do that is incidental. - IMHO This is an Oxymoron and makes no sense!
A question that often comes up is:
“Can a GM spring become a Commander spring by cutting it shorter?”
The answer is…yes and no. It can be substituted, assuming that the Commander has a standard design recoil system…but because of the wind and the different rate…it won’t be exactly the same. Cutting a GM spring to the Commander’s standard 22.5 coils will result in a spring that’s shorter in free length…which cuts down on the preload in battery somewhat…which really isn’t all that important as long as the spring doesn’t go to free length before the slide is fully in battery and it has enough punch to feed the round and place the gun in battery.
The solution is to cut the spring to 24.5 coils, which leaves enough space in the tunnel without danger of spring bind in every Commander I’ve used it in. Because of the decreased preload space and the tighter compression at full slide travel…the resulting spring load at full travel is right around 16.5 pounds…or about a pound less than a Commander-specific 18 pound spring.
I’ve done this for years, in dozens of my own Commanders…steel or aluminum alloy frames…and in dozens tht belong to other people…without ill effect, and I haven’t bought a “Commander” spring in over 30 years.
One caveat. Be sure to check for coil bind before firing the gun. Specs can vary. Although I haven’t had it happen yet, that doesn’t mean that it can’t. As the wisdom goes: “I only know what I can measure.” A quick test is to install the spring and hand-cycle the slide briskly but not brutally, letting it hit the impact abutment. If you hear a sharp metallic noise…it’s probably good to go. If you hear and/or feel a dull thud or a crunch…it’s in coil bind. Trim a half coil and retest.
So…it won’t be the same spring…but it can be substituted.
This applies to Colt Commanders and faithful clones with 4.25 inch slides and standard recoil systems only.
I stated in my previous post on the topic that the purpose of the “recoil” spring is returning the slide to battery. This seems to cause a little confusion due to Bill Wilson’s advice to use different spring rates to “tune” the gun to the load…with the criteria being to use the heaviest spring that will allow the slide to lock consistently…and the yardstick being how far the brass flies on ejection.
I don’t want to pick on the old watchmaker unduly…but this very often leads to grossly overspringing the gun. There are too many factors involved in ejection distance than just the slide’s velocity when it hits the impact abutment.
Another cry that I hear is that, when firing hot-rod +P ammo, that a heavier spring is needed because of the pressure…or to protect the frame from damage…neither of which has any basis in reality. Like the ever-present shock buff…this seems to be marketing. People who are in the business of selling springs want to…well…sell springs.
To wit:
Convince the customer that he “needs” it…and then sell it to him.
By overspringing the gun, you really aren’t keeping it from breaking. You’re just changing what breaks. Remember that springs work in both directions. A stronger spring means slower rearward, and faster forward. Faster forward….faster than necessary…increases momentum and impact when the slide slams home. That places more impact stress on the lower lug feet…the slidestop crosspin…and the holes in the frame that the pin mounts in. While a good slidestop should endure…sometimes the holes and the lug feet don’t do so well. The impact abutments are designed to absorb impact. The other areas mentioned aren’t. Slip the slidestop pin through the barrel link and swing it to the in-battery position and take note of the tiny area of the lug feet that bear on the pin. That’s what is involved in actually stopping that 18-ounce slide and barrel assembly…driven by the spring.
I’ve seen oversprung Colt LW Commanders egg-shape those holes and crack the frames adjacent to the holes in the bottom with as little as 1500 rounds.
Overspringing also makes the pistol more grip sensitive. That is…more prone to limp-wrist failures to eject unless the gun is gripped firmly. A properly sprung pistol should function when cradled in the hand, barely supported with the thumb and index finger, with maybe the pinky lightly keeping the butt stable. If it won’t function when gripped in that manner, it’s a range queen…not a defensive sidearm.
Overspringing also increases felt recoil rather than softening it. I’ll get into that in Part 3.
Cheers, ladies and laddies.
Related
badkarmamib
Member
JohnnyFlake
Thank you very much for that great read. I had never seen that article before, and found it to be hugely informative.
Thank you very much for that great read. I had never seen that article before, and found it to be hugely informative.
tark
Member
Ahhhh.... but I admitted I probably spelled it wrong, GRIZ22.
I'm having trouble deciphering and understanding you line of your thought. You hold to the notion (steadfastly) that the recoil spring's ONLY function during the firing cycle is to return the slide to battery; however you also admit that firing a gun without one for a thousand rounds, one at a time, will doubtless damage the pistol. If it even gets to 1000 rounds. Is it not painfully obvious that the spring, as it compresses, is fulfilling a secondary function? That of slowing the slide to a manageable velocity before it crashes into the frame. Guide rod, buffer....whatever.
I agree completely with with the rest of your assertions. Extra strength springs are a complete waste of money, 99% of the time. They shove the slide into battery with too much force. This is how you crack or shear barrel lugs in a 1911 barrel because they are slamming against the slide stop with too much force. I have seen a lot of those at the shop. Someone wanted to shoot hot rod loads in his gun so he would put in an 18 or 20 pound spring and then wonder why his pistol broke.
As you have stated, you want more power, buy a larger caliber pistol!!
I was never an Assembler when I worked for Les, pretty much all I did was checker and Fit slides to frames. But I sat right next to 'em and every time some idiot did something stupid and sent the gun back, I heard about it.
You would not believe some of the idiotic things we saw, but that isn't the topic of the thread. Perhaps another thread.
Good shooting.
I'm having trouble deciphering and understanding you line of your thought. You hold to the notion (steadfastly) that the recoil spring's ONLY function during the firing cycle is to return the slide to battery; however you also admit that firing a gun without one for a thousand rounds, one at a time, will doubtless damage the pistol. If it even gets to 1000 rounds. Is it not painfully obvious that the spring, as it compresses, is fulfilling a secondary function? That of slowing the slide to a manageable velocity before it crashes into the frame. Guide rod, buffer....whatever.
I agree completely with with the rest of your assertions. Extra strength springs are a complete waste of money, 99% of the time. They shove the slide into battery with too much force. This is how you crack or shear barrel lugs in a 1911 barrel because they are slamming against the slide stop with too much force. I have seen a lot of those at the shop. Someone wanted to shoot hot rod loads in his gun so he would put in an 18 or 20 pound spring and then wonder why his pistol broke.
As you have stated, you want more power, buy a larger caliber pistol!!
I was never an Assembler when I worked for Les, pretty much all I did was checker and Fit slides to frames. But I sat right next to 'em and every time some idiot did something stupid and sent the gun back, I heard about it.
You would not believe some of the idiotic things we saw, but that isn't the topic of the thread. Perhaps another thread.
Good shooting.
gregshake2
Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2015
- Messages
- 19
It's amazing to me, a novice,that two smiths from top builder can " about recoil spring rates
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gregshake2
Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2015
- Messages
- 19
I meant to say have such diverse ideas about a design 105 years old is that the genius of the design?
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