1st Reloading setup; good choice?

[blue86buick]

Howdy. I've been reading the reloading forum for some time, and searching through for specific information/reviews/feedback on a reloading setup for a beginner. What I've seen has been mixed information (different opinions), but I've found 3 ways one could start:

1. Lee Classic Loader (s)
   Pros: cheap. works...works well I hear. portable. "put-away-able." All else you need is a hammer and components. a scale/measure helps, but isn't needed out of the box.
   Cons: slow. loud. (whack, whack) did i mention slow?
   
2. Single stage press (Lee Hand Press, Lee Reloader/Challenger, RCBS Partner Press)
   Pros: still rather cheap, take dies which can be used in everything else, consistent operation, good to have when upgrading to a progressive, generally available in starter kits
   Cons: slow, but not as bad as LCL, need dies and shellholder, possibly scale/measure too. more expensive for a tight budget.
   
3. Progressive press (Dillion SDB, 550B)
   Pros: faster, the SDB comes with dies, the 550B takes standard, consistent operation.
   Cons: SDB dies non-standard, need dies/shellholder for the 550B. even more outlay on a tight budget.
   [/list=1]
   
   Right now I shoot mostly 9mm, 45ACP, and .223. I don't shoot as much as I'd like to, partly due to cost, party time. When I go to the range, I usually use at least 1 box (50rnds) of each kind of ammo, sometimes close to 2, occasionally...like when with friends, 3-4 boxes, especially when shooting Wolf. For me, the SDB would be nice, except I shoot 2 pistol calibers, and it doesn't come in rifle. The 550B is a little much for my budget, especially when starting. Also, I plan to load very small quanties of .243 and .30-06.
   
   I was thinking a good way for ME to start would be a LCL in each caliber (at least .45ACP and .223), plus powder scale and measure, and a tumbler. Then later, get a Lee Hand press (plus dies) to make decapping and resizing easier, and a hand primer of some make to make priming easier. Finally, if I seem to be enjoying it, getting LCL in .243 and 30-06, and a set of dies for 9mm. Finally, once I've done it for a while, and know it's something I enjoy, get either a good benchmount single stage, and/or a 550B or similar, and eventually dies for .243 and 30-06. Then go to town.
   
   How does this plan look to you experienced folks? I know I haven't mentioned the requisite loading manuals, cartridge blocks, etc, but this is the stuff you physically can not load without.

 

[only1asterisk]

My vote is for the single stage press. Forget the tumbler for now and save $60. It really isn't required. You can wash your brass in dishwashing soap (or a detergent made by Birchwood-Casey that cost 5x more) and get it plenty clean. The Lee Classic Loader kits are a pain! You will end up spending money to replace them. The progressive presses are nice, but there in more money involved than the price of the press. You will still need calipers, scales, trimming equipment, and when changing calibers new shell plates, case feeder, priming conversion, etc. depending on the press. Setting up for a progressive for 2 calibers and buying all the stuff to get started can cost $600-$700.

The very basic setup I would buy in your case:
RCBS Partner or Lee Classic Press
45 ACP Carbide Dies
223 Full Length Die Set (assuming this is for an auto)
Hand Priming Tool
Shell Holders
Lee "Perfect" Powder Measure
4lbs of Powder
1500 primers
Lee case trimming gauge and holder for .223
Lee case trimming set.
Scale
Dial Calipers
Powder Funnel
Minimum 2 Reloading Manuals

Add it all up and you get:

$250 for equipment
$80 for powder
$25 for primers
$30 for books

Total: $385

Sub cheaper Lee items you can save:

$20 on dies
$30 on press
$20 on scales

Savings: $70

500 .224 Bullets $35
1000 45 ACP Bullets $40

Total: $75

Price for all you reloading equipment and enough components for 1 case of 1000 45 ACP and 1 case of 500 .223:

$390-460

Let's pretend you can buy remanufactured 45 ACP for $150 a case and .233 for $100.

Net cost of reloading equipment after first 1500 rounds:

$120-210

Net cost of reloading equipment after second 1500 rounds:

Less than $110

After the third case of each, you are saving money with each pull of the handle while making better ammo than you can buy.


David

 

[stans]

I started reloading many years ago with a kit that was offered by Midway. It included a Lee Challenger press, one set of Lee dies, and the Lee primer tray and seating adapter for the press. I added a Lyman powder scale and #55 powder measure as well as a set of calipers. I used this set up until I started competing in IPSC. In that game, match and practice ammo disappear rapidly, so I up graded to the RCBS AmmoMaster progressive press.

The one problem I had with my first set up was with the Lee dies. The hollow expander plugs were waaaaaaay out of round and this caused all sorts of accuracy problems. I also did not care for that silly rubber o-ring on the locking nut, it just did not seem all that reliable and repeatable. I would suggest using another brand of dies such as RCBS or Lyman. I really like RCBS dies and their service is great.

 

[jdkelly]

Start with a single stage then....

Buy a single stage, spend as little money as you can, and go to a progressive once you've gotten use to the reloading process safely.

You will end up discarding (storing) most of your first purchase equipment.

Once you go to a progressive you will wonder how you ever got along with out one.

Setting up a progressive without any reloading experience can be difficult and dangerous. Starting realoding with a progressive is sort of like learning to drive with an Indy car. A loaded Dillon XL-650 will cost about $725, from Brian Enos.

Respectfully,

jdkelly

 

[JA]

I have recomended this to many friends and co-workers. All have been very happy with it and especially the price. It has all the tools needed to reload except dies and a case trimmer gauge.
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/820810
The case trimmer gauge is really only needed for rifle cartridges and is ordered by the specific cartridge you are loading.
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse
Lee dies are the best priced and the only dies that come with a shellholder which is not included with other brand dies. They are a $5 seperate item. Other brand dies what you are paying a higher price for is a outside finish(chrome,nitrite,bluing,etc). Lee dies have no finish on the outside but are plain steel so a coat of oil is needed to keep them from rusting.
So by buying the Lee kit,Lee dies,and a case trimmer gauge you can keep your costs for tools/equipment down around $150 for loading 9mm,45acp,and 223.
This way with a smaller cash outlay at first to get started you can take the money saved over other brands of equipment to buy more reloading componets or save it to upgrade to a progressive press. As most reloaders find they end up shooting more per $ spent than really saving any money by reloading. A box of US mfg. 45acp factory ammo costs $12 and by buying componets in bulk you can get your cost down to load the same spec load to $6 a box. So for the same money of 2 boxes of factory ammo you will be able to load 4 boxes. You will end up shooting more rds per range trip making yourself a better shot. So reloading can pay off in one of several ways.

 

[only1asterisk]

Thought I would add that 9mm and smaller cases are difficult to load on a single stage press. I started to long ago and found it was not worth the aggravation when I could pick up loaded ammo at very little difference in cost.
The 45 ACP is more worthwhile.

JDKelly,

I have all 3 single stage presses I've ever bought still set up. One does nothing but deprime brass, my co-axial press is reserved for match quality rifle ammo, and my Ammomaster loads the big boys. Single stage presses are not obsoleted by progressives, progressives just give you more time to fart around with you single stage press!

David

 

[dakotasin]

for my first set up i went w/ the rockchucker kit.

now that i've been loading for awhile, and if i had to do it all over again, that is the exact same route i would take, and the same route i would advise any new reloader who is going to load rifle ammo.

in addition to the kit, you will find calipers and a powder trickler handy.

 

[lee n. field]

I was thinking a good way for ME to start would be a LCL in each caliber (at least .45ACP and .223), plus powder scale and measure, and a tumbler. Then later, get a Lee Hand press (plus dies) to make decapping and resizing easier, and a hand primer of some make to make priming easier. Finally, if I seem to be enjoying it, getting LCL in .243 and 30-06, and a set of dies for 9mm. Finally, once I've done it for a while, and know it's something I enjoy, get either a good benchmount single stage, and/or a 550B or similar, and eventually dies for .243 and 30-06. Then go to town.

Skip the Lee Loader, unless you're really hard up for money (sounds like not) or cramped for space.

You will be able to do a lot with the Lee hand press. Rifle brass, however, is not easy to resize with one. There's just not enough leverage. The ergonomics kind of suck. I'd get one anyway, because it's very handy, and very inexpensive.

IMHO, get a good bench mount single stage press, the best you can afford.

 

[45auto]

If you can swing it, the 550 would be a very good choice IMHO. It will "hurt" a bit when you buy it, but if you shoot a reasonable amount of ammo and you like to reload quickly, you will be happy now and several years from now.

 

[ojibweindian]

I'd get the Lee Aniversary Kit, then chuck the Challenger press that comes with it and get the Lee Classic instead. There are no flies on the Classic; the thing is built like a tank.

Actually, what I did was get a Lee Classic press, a Lyman 1000 powder scale, a set of Lee .30-06 dies, a set of used RCBS .38 Spl/.357 Mag dies, and the case prep stuff that came with the Lee Aniversary kit.

I can't load for volume, but then again, I don't want to. Reloading gives me a good excuse for spending several hours in my workshop when things get too hectic inside the house

 

[blue86buick]

Thanks for the replies, keep em coming!

I should have mentioned, i'm going to be reloading for a Kimber 1911, Styer M9, and a Kel-Tec SU-16. I've started shooting brass in them so I can reload the empties, but I pick up some range brass here and there. For this reason, do I need to full length resize the .223 brass? Also, 9mm isn't a priority with the price of valuepacks from WM, though better ammo would be nice.

Unfortunatly, the 550B (or similar) is a bit out of reach right now. I'm not terribly hard up for money, just slightly. And as good as it is, the Rock Chucker kit is more than I want to spend right away to...maybe not the Partner Press kit though...or just the press and a Lee kit.

I was looking at a tumbler at Midway that's on sale for $37. I don't plan to reload high volume yet, but I figured it would be a nice luxury to have now.

So, rethinking this plan..first step, skip the LCL, unless I feel the need for pain. I figured they'd be good to cheaply load plinking/target .243 at less than $13/20rds. Then, start with the following:

1) Lee Anniversary kit - $78
2) Lee .45ACP carbide dies - $20
3) Lee .223 Pacesetter dies - $20
4) Case trimmer & gauge (yet to be determined which...how necessary is this?)
5) Frankford Aresenal tumbler - $37
6) Frankford Aresenal SS caliper - $20
and maybe..
7) Lee hand press - $19

This seems like, for about $194 from Midway, it would give me everything I would need to start reloading for .223 and .45ACP, minus components. The hand press would let me decap/size while watching TV, or maybe even at work. Comments/critiques?

 

[ojibweindian]

Case trimmer & gauge (yet to be determined which...how necessary is this?)

Very necessary for rifles. I use the Lee Hand trimmer and gauge; it works well for the low volume of .30-06 I reload.

I would also suggest that, upon getting the Aniversary kit, make plans to get either the Lee Classic press, or another single stage press from RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, etc. The Challenger press is okay, but the linkage is prone to breaking; the Challenger I had did this.

 

[bogie]

For pistol and lever, pump, or semi-auto rifles, get a progressive.

If you're shooting a bolt action or single-shot rifle, get a rockchucker and use Lee collet dies. For seating, use Wilson straight line seaters with an arbor press.

 

[JA]

The cases must be trimmed and full length resized on all rifle cases fired in a semi auto every time they are loaded. If not you will have problems with them chambering. Pistol cases don't strech as much as rifle cases due to the lower chamber pressures and on auto pistols the case mouth butts up aganist a shoulder in the chamber. This doesn't give the brass anywhere to go so the cases don't strech.
A hand press is fine for depriming or neck sizing but if you try to use it to full length resize you are in for a REAL!!! work out. Been there and tried full length resizing 223 brass with my Lee hand press.
Get this caliper as it is accurate, real easy to use/read, and cheap.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47257

 

[kernal_panic]

i'm gonna go out on a limb here. i say buy the following:

1. lee pro 1000 in .223 $130
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/347040
this gets you the rifle charging die. if you buy one setup for a pistol caliber you'll have to buy the rifle die sepratly.

2. lee dies in 9mm and .45 acp $19.99 each
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/140349
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/661032

3 shell plates for 9mm and .45
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/717349


you'll need a large primer feed and a lee trimmer and guide for .223 thats another $20 or so.

you'll be loading progressively instead. 200-300 rounds an hour.

 

[Don of Kalifornia]

I'd lean towards either a lyman or rcbs turrent press, not much more than a single stage, but faster, and with a extra head or two easy to set up. Both use standard dies, and for the pice of one dillion conversion kit you can get a set of shell holders.

I load on a dillion 550 it works good for everything i load, but it is a tad pricey when adding a new caliber that you don't load alot.

 

[WalkerTexasRanger]

I will add this, you can run a Dillon 550b as a single stage press, but you can't run the singles as a progressive. Hold out a little longer and buy right the first time. Do that, or ultimately spend more buying the same thing twice after you determine you "need" the better version....

I started loading with a 550b and have never looked back. Just find someone in your area that can help you with the setup and initial operation of the machine. Offer them use of the machine and the components for whatever they load if they will just come to your machine to do their loading.

It is not rocket science, but it is a huge help to have some knowledge along for the first ride....

Safe loading!!!!

WTR

 

[only1asterisk]

Re: Buying Progressive First

This will save you the price of a sigle stage press, a powder measure and some shellholders should you decide to abandon it. $50-150. Everything else you use to load with a single stage you use with a progressive. Progressive presses don't lend themselves to load development and loading match quality rifle ammo. Single stage presses aren't very good at cranking out tons of 9mm. I think it all boils down to your goals. Resale value on used reloading equipment is high, so you aren't going to lose much if you choose wrong the first time.


David

 

[blue86buick]

Followup

Well, it's been a few days, and I've gotten a few things. I started by getting a Lee Safety scale and Auto Prime, and played with those for a day or two. So far, $30 invested. I couldn't do much, but I could weigh stuff, and practice my priming form!

So Saturday, I picked up 1# of Universal Clays, 100 CCI 300 LP primers, and a Lee #4 and #2 shellholder for $28, as well as 5#'s of lizard litter at PetCo for $5.50. All right, I'm up to $63.50, and we're on our way! No tumbler for my media, but I figure I'll think of a way to use it.

Sunday night, I grabbed almost everything else I need to make some rounds! The total was $96.50, and that got me the Auto Prime shellholder, a set of RCBS carbide dies in .45, a Perfect Powder measure, and....a green RCBS Partner press. It's still a single stage, and the bottom of the line...but it's not a Lee. (y'all can rest easy now ) At $45 for the RCBS, I figured I'd start with a good press, so I have someone else to blame when I'm disappointed. I blame the dies to impatience though. Anyway, this brings me up to an even $160, and I have only a few things left. Friday, I'll be ordering a tumber, manuals, bullet puller, and calipers from Midway. This will be another $77, and hopefully will be all I need to load for a while, save bullets, primers, and eventually more powder. Total spent should be about $237, and seems to be a decent setup. Oh yeah, the almost is the fact that I don't have any bullets yet.

So far, things have been trouble free. I figured out a way to clean brass that worked fine for the >200 brass I had...I dump about 30-50 in a gladware bowl, pour in some media, and shake it for 30 mins while watching Simpsons. As far as I can tell, they come out clean enough from that. I AM getting a tumbler though...there's no way I'm going to do that for any longer.

After "tumbling" my brass, I decapped and resized in the press, then primed with the Lee AP. Right now, I've got about 150 brass waiting for bullets, then I'll be "one of the club" finally.

 

[wingman]

turrent press

I like the turrent press with manual indexing for a new reloader, that way it is faster then a single stage however learning is just as easy, I suggest
loading in stages for a time and in very small amounts no more then 10 rounds, easier to not feel bad about 10 mistakes then 50+.