.223 55gr Vmax

[CMV]

Is there any difference in performance between the 55 gr Vmax with or without cannelure? Any reason to choose one over the other? W/C is $1.40 less.

If I have a Hornady 55gr FMJBT load that I like now is that a good starting place to try Vmax? Or do I need to start at the bottom and work up to get best results?

My plinking load is mixed HS, 55 gr FMJBT, CCI 450, 24.2 gr H335, 2.220 OAL, Lee FCD @ cannelure. Groups are 2.5" ish at 100 yds from a bench with a sandbag out of a 16" or 20" AR. What would be a reasonable expectation for group size if I substituted the 55 gr Vmax and left everything else the same?

With the difference in shape will the seating die set for FMJBT seat a Vmax at the same depth (give me same OAL) or will it need an adjustment? Should I stick to the same 2.220 or should the Vmax be shorter/longer?

 

[NCsmitty]

What would be a reasonable expectation for group size if I substituted the 55 gr Vmax and left everything else the same?

You probably should back off to 23.0gr for safety sake to start, but you do as you want. I believe you'll be rewarded with a major reduction in group size, because I've never seen a FMJ bullet shoot as well as a standard brand SP or HP. FMJ are fine for plinking, but for serious bench work, even the budget brands from Midwayusa or Midsouth will shoot better.

Set your COAL at 2.250 so it will work through the magazine, but yes different bullets will seat at different lengths with the same setting.

No crimp is necessary if your neck tension is good.


NCsmitty

 

[rcmodel]

I just posted this over on the Rifle forum.

This is the differance you can expect with Win FMJ-BT.
Hornadys FMJ are better then Win FMJ, but still!

I was using Nosler Ballistic-Tip, but V-Max shoots the same in my Colt SP-1 Carbine.

Same load, just different bullets.



rc

 

[Shurshot]

your groups very much resemble what I shot using .223 factory ammo same weight bullet sighting in a NV scope. I used cheap PMC fmj 55 gr ammo to get a dime sized group. then switched to Win SuperX PSP 55 gr and got what looks like your bad group

now I will be testing some different weight/bullets HP and vmax offered by HSM to find a better shooter for a hunting round. I also got some for my .243 and am looking for the sweet load.

 

[CMV]

"If your neck tension is good"

I keep seeing that and honestly have no idea how tell if my neck tension is good or bad.

"No amount of crimp is going to make up for poor neck tension"

I see that one a lot too which also confuses me. Again, no idea what good/bad is or how to measure. I have to smack the crap out of the plastic hammer style puller to even get movement of a few thou so I guess that means its good?

But if every piece goes thru the same FL size die won't they all be good?

Really makes we wonder what the crimp is for then. If "I don't need it if I have good neck tension" and "it won't make up for bad neck tension" then I either don't need it because the tension is good or it isn't doing anything to help because the tension is poor?

 

[NCsmitty]

I keep seeing that and honestly have no idea how tell if my neck tension is good or bad.

If you can push the nose of a loaded round against your bench with some nominal pressure and it doesn't move, then your neck tension is good. You've more or less proved that with your impact hammer, as mentioned.
If your expander ball in your FL die measures somewhere around .222, and your shooting .224 bullets, that will be just about right. No crimp necessary, and the bullets won't move, and you've saved an extra step. You can shoot with or without a cannelure.


NCsmitty

 

[kingmt]

If you can't shove it in by hand then they are good.

I have never crimped a rifle round. My dies won't even crimp.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You're mainly told/advised to crimp (in a rifle) if you use a tubular magazine. True story.

 

[rcmodel]

My dies won't even crimp.

Sure they will.

Screw them down far enough to crimp and most all seating dies will crimp.

rc

 

[Certaindeaf]

Sure they will.

Screw them down far enough to crimp and most all seating dies will crimp.

rc

I was thinking the same thing. Never knew otherwise.

 

[Blackrock]

I am shooting 55g Hrnady Vmax, CCI 400 primer and 24.5g of H335 out of a Savage Axis and getting good results with it.

 

[kingmt]

Sure they will.

Screw them down far enough to crimp and most all seating dies will crimp.

rc

Nope. They won't turn down any farther then the shell holder.

 

[rcmodel]

Well what kind of dies are they anyway?

rc

 

[Bayou1535]

If crimping is for tubular magazine and I understand the reason what about for a beltfed as in 1919. Just curious as I want to reload for a 308 bolt and the 1919. Not intending to hijack but am curious, thanks.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, it would be prudent to crimp for a Browning machinegun.

That is why military 30-06 was crimped when they still used bolt-actions.

rc

 

[kingmt]

I have Lee Deluxe dies. FL, NS, & Dead Seating.

 

[Bayou1535]

Thanks RC, built one over the summer and was curious. Havent had the chance to shoot it due to just obtaining a link loader and still need a tripod.

 

[helotaxi]

Well what kind of dies are they anyway?

rc

The ones that I have that will not crimp are the Lee Dead-length seater, the Forster Benchrest seater and the RCBS match seater.

 

[Clark]

I tried really hard to get groups with AR15s and 55 gr Vmax 10 years ago.
The best I could get was 1.1" 5 shots @100m with an SP1 and 1.05" with a Bushmaster V-match. There were a lot of groups, and they would get close, but they did not want to go under an inch.

I think that is because of those long throats.
I can get below 0.5" 5 shots 100y with 223s I put together on the cheap, that I can reach the lands with the seated bullet.

If I buy a 22 rimfire barrel for $33 from Numrich, chamber it in 223 with a short throat, and shoot bullets short enough to stabilize with the 16" twist, that will be a sub moa gun.


The benchrest guys do not like cannelure, but what ever they are worried about is down in the noise compared to the problems with $1000 AR15 chambers.

 

[CMV]

I loaded 25 fmj & 25 Vmax to test today. Will see how they compare. Same everything except projectile & OAL. Skipped the FCD to see if that makes any difference as well.

Won't get to chrony them because I'll use the bench & the inside range. The fluorescent lights on the inside range wreak havoc on my chrony & nothing I've done has been able to get it consistent inside there.