223, old loads, new rifle

[kmw1954]

First I'd like to offer thanks to all of you that have helped me along the way with this 223 rile and the reloads.

The first rifle is a Savage Axis 223 That came with a cheap 3-9 scope which was upgraded to a Burris 4.5-14X42.. The new rifle is another Savage only it is a model 10 223 and is currently wearing that old 3-9 scope from the Axis. Until I can get the correct rings to swap them around. Both shoot excellent. Though the Model 10 is much smoother and much better balanced.

The original load workup was with some 55gr Hornady Varmint Soft Point. They were not great but better than the American Eagle 55gr factory. Didn't shoot a lot of those as I soon found some 62gr Hornady FMJBT. They reduced group size by half just switching bullets. These are now my standard but have also now started on some Hornady 68gr Match HP.

So here is where I am at. did two ladder workups with just powder charge adjustments with the 62gr bullet which I have posted about before. The second batch was the 62gr with Ramshot TAC @ 23.7, 23.8 and 23.9gr.. The .7/.8 shot almost identical groups and the 23.9 started to open up so I settled on the 23.7/23.8 to develop. This load shot very well in the Axis.

I then acquired the model 10 and after a couple outings with it it shot very well at the 100yd sight-in with the handloads though once I moved to the 200yd it wasn't as consistent. It does appear to like the 23.8 over the 23.7 so I am thinking I may have to try again with a slightly higher charge of 23.9 and 24.0 and see what happens, or try some 23.4 and 23.5.

Now to that 68gr Match. I started my load again with Ramshot TAC at 22.6, 22.9, 23.2 and 23.5.. None were impressive or stood out from the rest. I was hoping to see at least one that showed promise but not that I could judge.

Somehow I shot these in a backwards order with the 23.5 first and the 22.6 last. Shot these at 100yds. The first group was the smallest (23.5gr) shooting 3 round groups X2 each at a separate target. Rotating one group per target then the next until the last when I shot 3 rounds. reloaded and shot the next three of the same load at the same target. These six shots all strung straight up along the same line about 1/4" apart. Could almost lay a straight edge on them they were that lined up. I'm wondering if this gun just doesn't like this weight or bullet profile.

Today, before a Dr. apt I loaded up some more of the 68gr.. 6ea @ 23.7 and 6ea. @ 23.9 and then some @ 24.0 at the length I had been using and then also 6ea. .010 and .025 deeper to see what happens. This is the heaviest I've loaded so far as max with this bullet/powder combination is 24.4gr...

Would be happy to hear thoughts or suggestions. Also doing this w/o a chronograph as I do not own one yet.

 

[kalielkslayer]

You said the best 69gr group was with the hottest load, and you’re going up, but still under max. I think that’s exactly what I would do, until you show pressure signs, or the group starts to open.

The group that “strung up along a line.” Was each shot higher than the one before it? Or you just saw the results after?

Could be barrel be heating up since you didn’t mention how long you let your barrel cool.

Or potentially fouling.

I know it’s time consuming but I clean my bore after every 3 groups, shoot a fouling shot, then 3 more groups, repeat.

Curious the twist rates in each barrel? A 1-12, or even 1-10 might not stabilize the 69 grain bullets.

 

[FROGO207]

Also that new rifle might not like the "better" bullets in it. Might want to try even a different brand of bullets yet. Also as posted the twist rate makes a big diffetence if they are not the same.

 

[stillquietvoice]

Are those hornandy 68 gr bthp match bullets? If so they are long, Iirc my measurements were 1.1 in and load data oal was 2.25". I tried them in my m11 and AR 15. My m11 shot about 1.125 in groups with them, of course I'm still trying to find its load, seems to shoot moa no matter what I do, 7/8 in is about the best group I've shot with it. As for vertical stringing, could be a pressure point in the fire end pushing up on the barrel as it heats up.

I have a similar situation with my m11 243 win, but it will stack 3 in one hole then shoot rounds 4 and 5 low right, equal distance from each other, but farther away. This is typical shot at 200 yds.

It's consist, haven't checked it out yet but will soon. I did also out the stock with my 223, because the 243 came with a youth stock that didn't fit me well.

 

[Blue68f100]

The Hornady 68gr BTHP-M bullets never have shot as good as the Sierra 69gr BTHP-M in my guns. The 68gr is about 0.090" longer than 69gr Sierras. Be careful setting the bullets deeper due to the extra OAL. If your gun has the std 223R or NATO chambers the 69gr at max length 2.260" will put you around 0.030" off the lands. With the long skinny pointed 68gr you will have over double the jump, and it requires a faster twist rate. You should have a 1:9 or faster twist rate for the Sierra's. My 8.5:1 would not shoot the Hornady 68gr accurately at all. 23.6g of TAC gives me <1 moa with the 69gr SMK.

 

[kmw1954]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Now more info.
Yes the bullets are the Hornady 68gr HPBT Match. I purchased these in my original purchase of 55gr bullets. it was the last box of 100 on the shelf. Both guns have a 1:9 twist 22" Sporter profile barrel.

The stringing was mentioned also to the bench shooters I know at the range and they also suggested that it could be a heat issue or a powder charge issue. Web search also stated it could be a bag rest issue. I am leaning towards a heat and rest issue. Another article also said it could be a breathing issue! Yes all six shots were fired consecutively.

To clarify length. OAL.. I was loading the 62 gr to 2.250" after doing a bullet jamb in the barrel and then setting the bullet back another .010" to get to that 2.250. Came up with the same results with the 68gr bullet. Then once again one of the bench guys tells me I might be able to tighten up some of these groups by adjusting my seating depth. So I loaded 6ea. of the 68gr deeper 9 (shorter) at 2.240" and 2.225" just to see what happens. These are still well below max loads so it shouldn't cause a problem but I will certainly watch for one.

FROGO, yes I did mention that maybe this gun does not particularly care for these Hornady 68gr Match bullets. But I still have about 50 left so if no improvement after these next shots I my start them over and shoot them thru the Axis.

 

[kmw1954]

So this afternoon I opened the ammo box and gathered up some of the 62gr loads I had left and took ten of each to the press and shortened them up a tad. From the original setting of 2.250 and seated them down to 2.240".. So now I can test fire those also, hopefully this week while at work.

Also ordered a new set of scope rings so that I can swap out scopes between the two rifles.