3 die or 4 die set-up

[lilquiz]

i am currently using a set of lee cabide 45 acp dies (3 die set), lee claims no tarper crimp die is needed , due to the way they expand the case. Hornady and Rcbs 3 die sets claim to have the crimp feature built in. Does anyone use the three die set-up without the taper crimp die with good results, or will I need the crimp die as well. This may be the cause of a 45 acp Kimber problem stated in an earlier post

 

[243winxb]

You Lee seating die has a crimp built in. It starts as a taper crimp, then turns into a roll crimp, so there instructions say. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/faq/index.cgi

Carbide die set

Carbide handgun dies contain the carbide sizer, the powder through expanding die, the seater/crimping die, a powder dipper, shell holder and load data. The seater/crimper die applies a modified taper crimp and eventually a roll crimp negating the need for a separate taper crimp die.

Sometimes its best to taper crimp in a separate operation.

 

[Sapper771]

I taper crimp separately with great results. I never liked the idea of pushing a bullet into the case and at the same time , pushing the neck of the case against the bullet.

 

[JDGray]

I use the 4 die sets in all pistol calibers, just to seperate the seating and crimping. Although I just barely touch the mouth while crimping, set up is way easier, and I like the post sizing feature of the Lee FCD. I have never measured a cartridge before and after post sizing, but its very minimal if any. Many people belive the FCD is a waste of time, but so is dropping every cartridge into a case gauge. As long as your not using the FCD to fix reloading issues, like over belling, using bullets that are too big in diameter, your gonna be just fine I've never ever had a problem before or after using FCD, and setup is just plain simple

 

[Walkalong]

As 243winxb posted, your Lee die is capable of taper crimping just like other seater dies are.

I put a slight taper crimp on all my .45 ACP, as do 99% of reloaders. Just enough to remove the bell or a hair more.

Here are a couple of pics.

The Lee expander flares just like most expanders out there, so I can not see where they would say you don't need to crimp. Even when using my Redding two step expanders (something they copied from Lyman) I still taper crimp.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Unlike my friend AC I like the Lee Factory Crimp Die that's in the 4 die set. I use a FCD for all my handgun ammo in a Lee Classic 4 hole turret press.

 

[lilquiz]

what is this over-belling term ,is that the same as expanding? I have ordered a FCD to resize after the seat/crimp. I have talked to a couple of ppl , who have said they have had to add it to resize the case after bullet seating. I hope it is not a bandaid fix because something else is wrong, but
I have checked and re-checked via calipers. the problem occurs after the bullet is seated. so call me a 4 die set-up man.

 

[Walkalong]

I hope it is not a bandaid fix because something else is wrong

Smart fellow.

 

[LiveLife]

I hope it is not a bandaid fix because something else is wrong

I have considered using the 4 die set (with FCD) before as all of my pistol dies are 3 die sets.

Because I use the 3 die sets, I make sure the taper crimp brings the case neck flare back to straight for 9/40/45 cases. Although the combination taper crimp/bullet seat die can also do roll crimp, it results in "rough" roll crimp for 9/40/45 cases.

I think that's why Lee came out with FCD, to put more "smooth" roll crimp on straight walled cases if the reloaders wanted that extra roll crimp after the taper crimp. I have seen some reloaders use the FCD to "fix" the rounds they taper crimped and had problems with feeding/chambering. Yes, this would be a band aid fix and I suggested they "fix" the problem first with their taper crimp die so their rounds fed/chambered well.

Now, if your rounds feed/chamber well after taper crimp and want that extra finishing touch of FCD, that's fine too.

If you are getting reloads that feed/chamber well with the 3 die set, I don't think the 4 die set is necessary.

 

[Tacoma]

FWIW, I was a devout "3 die guy" for my ah-hum, lengthly shooting carrier.
However when I reciently traded in the old Dillon SDB for a Lee Classic Turret, I was forced to go to the 4 hole turret. Since I had to buy new dies anyway, I splurged the extra $10 and got the 4 die set. Glad I did. In truth, I think either set puts a suitable light crimp in my needs ( I don't like much crimp anyway). The big advantage is the extra die completes a full length sizing of the completed round. Can't tell you how much this improves reliability at the range. ( No more stray bulged/kinked rounds sneeking into the batch.) I've since bought a Lee 4 die set for all calibers that I reload.

 

[Walkalong]

Ya'll are killing me with the FCD.

No reason in the world to roll crimp .45 ACP rounds for an auto. There can be a time and a place for it, but that ain't it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Seriously, AC is correct, there is no reason to put a roll crimp on a .45 Auto used in a semi-auto or any straight wall pistol cartridge for that matter used in a semi-auto.

 

[LiveLife]

No more stray bulged/kinked rounds sneaking into the batch.

How are you getting bulged/kinked rounds?