3" vs 3.5" for waterfoul
- Thread starter blacklab
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My guess would be that most people that talk down about using the "magnums" either don't have a gun chambered for them or don't understand the need for them. For everything other than waterfowl, sure, you don't need them. The steel shot mandatory for waterfowl isn't nearly as dense as the lead shot it replaced. Therefore, steel shot will need more pellets and greater velocity. Alot of people don't understand that if you shoot at a goose 30 yards away with 2.75" steel loads, more than likely you'll just piss him off and make him fly faster. The larger shells put more shot in the pattern to improve chances of a vital hit.
berettashotgun
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Do you think the Mexican Army bragged about the odds at the ALAMO? They just wanted to win -and used everything available to do so.
Same applies to most waterfowlers, just they want to be recognized as:
A. Supreme callers - State champs preferably
B. A better shot than maybe Gene Sears or Tom Knapp -pick one. Look up Gene - I get to visit with him on occasion. He's the Chuck Norris of shotgunners.
C. Blessed with excellent karma or luck.
D. To busy to reload their shells.
Old guys with some actual experience are exempt from this useless chatter, I only used 2.75" duck loads in my extrema, when I use it.
The SX2 has tossed some 3.5" shells at turkey, likewise the Franchi 912 I traded for made a double on turkeys on my first day of ownership.
3.5" shells have a place, just most shotguns that pop'em don't fit the user properly.
Expense is marginal - the same guys that cry about the cost usually treat themselves VERY well at lunch when they are out hunting.
Same applies to most waterfowlers, just they want to be recognized as:
A. Supreme callers - State champs preferably
B. A better shot than maybe Gene Sears or Tom Knapp -pick one. Look up Gene - I get to visit with him on occasion. He's the Chuck Norris of shotgunners.
C. Blessed with excellent karma or luck.
D. To busy to reload their shells.
Old guys with some actual experience are exempt from this useless chatter, I only used 2.75" duck loads in my extrema, when I use it.
The SX2 has tossed some 3.5" shells at turkey, likewise the Franchi 912 I traded for made a double on turkeys on my first day of ownership.
3.5" shells have a place, just most shotguns that pop'em don't fit the user properly.
Expense is marginal - the same guys that cry about the cost usually treat themselves VERY well at lunch when they are out hunting.
MCgunner
Member
Geese require BIGGER shot sizes in steel than lead. Bigger shot, heavier, carries more energy down range. It is about getting enough of that big shot in a shell to pattern. Ts are big, 20 caliber or something like that, nearly 4 buck in size. It takes 3 1/2" of shell to get enough of it in a shell. Oh, sure, if you wanna pay 3.50 a round for hevi shot, knock yourself out. I know 3" hevi shot BB works great, but it depletes my wallet and an alarming rate.
On other threads like this (do a search) I've stated that the new 2.75" fast steel 3s or 2s, the 1550 fps stuff, is deadly on ducks. I don't shoot 3" on ducks anymore. I save money on the 2 3/4" stuff and my Winchester auto only chambers 2 3/4" stuff If I decide I wanna shoot that gun.
I shoot geese a couple times a season max. Most of my waterfowling is ducks. I shoot ducks usually with a Mossberg 500 camo, 2 3/4" Winchester high speed Xpert in 3s or 2s. But, I've got a 10 gauge for goose hunting now and throw steel Ts at 'em. That stuff don't mess around. It's good for 60 yards easily on a snow goose and will shoot right through one and leave an exit wound at 30. No more cripples at 35 yards or geese flying off to die somewhere else from infection.
Understand this, it was the Mossberg 835 that was designed for the 3.5" shell early on for goose hunters when steel shot was mandated throughout the land in the early 80s. Steel shot CAUSED, steel shot NECESSITATED the 3.5" shell for the big steel T and F shot that came out as an early answer to the obvious problem of steel shot on big birds. Bismuth and Hevishot came out as an alternative later, but the stuff will run you bankrupt. Steel shot laws also revived the 10 gauge from among the ranks of obsolete historical gauges like 2 and 4 gauge, too, and then the Ultimag came out for the hunter that didn't really want a dedicated 10 gauge goose gun, but wanted an all around gun. The 3.5" 12 gauge Ultimag is good, but if you like goose hunting, I still prefer how the 10 patterns. I just figured I already had enough 12s, why not get a ten to move up? I'll probably get a better one in the future. Mine's an H&R, but it works fine as a goose gun, just would prefer a BPS 10 eventually.
On other threads like this (do a search) I've stated that the new 2.75" fast steel 3s or 2s, the 1550 fps stuff, is deadly on ducks. I don't shoot 3" on ducks anymore. I save money on the 2 3/4" stuff and my Winchester auto only chambers 2 3/4" stuff If I decide I wanna shoot that gun.
I shoot geese a couple times a season max. Most of my waterfowling is ducks. I shoot ducks usually with a Mossberg 500 camo, 2 3/4" Winchester high speed Xpert in 3s or 2s. But, I've got a 10 gauge for goose hunting now and throw steel Ts at 'em. That stuff don't mess around. It's good for 60 yards easily on a snow goose and will shoot right through one and leave an exit wound at 30. No more cripples at 35 yards or geese flying off to die somewhere else from infection.
Understand this, it was the Mossberg 835 that was designed for the 3.5" shell early on for goose hunters when steel shot was mandated throughout the land in the early 80s. Steel shot CAUSED, steel shot NECESSITATED the 3.5" shell for the big steel T and F shot that came out as an early answer to the obvious problem of steel shot on big birds. Bismuth and Hevishot came out as an alternative later, but the stuff will run you bankrupt. Steel shot laws also revived the 10 gauge from among the ranks of obsolete historical gauges like 2 and 4 gauge, too, and then the Ultimag came out for the hunter that didn't really want a dedicated 10 gauge goose gun, but wanted an all around gun. The 3.5" 12 gauge Ultimag is good, but if you like goose hunting, I still prefer how the 10 patterns. I just figured I already had enough 12s, why not get a ten to move up? I'll probably get a better one in the future. Mine's an H&R, but it works fine as a goose gun, just would prefer a BPS 10 eventually.
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orphanedcowboy
Member
I like the 3 1/2" shells strictly for pattern density, I hate the recoil, price, and extra weight.
I shoot most of my ducks and geese with 3" shells, simply for the fact I know how they pattern, and I like the price.
If I know I am going to target geese, I simply switch to a 3" high density shell in the #4 shot size, and get the job done.
I shoot most of my ducks and geese with 3" shells, simply for the fact I know how they pattern, and I like the price.
If I know I am going to target geese, I simply switch to a 3" high density shell in the #4 shot size, and get the job done.
chas08
Member
What species are you shooting up there? Canadas, Specks?
MCgunner
Member
He must be waiting for 20 yard shots. 
chas08
Member
ROFL I didn't want to be the first one to say it!!!!!!
JohnBT
Member
"3" high density shell in the #4 shot size"
Works for me on saltwater Canadas using the original Hevi-Shot. I have bunches of it left in #4 and #6 and I'm glad I got it while it was relatively cheap. The #6 will work just fine on Canadas at 35 or 40 yards. I haven't tried it at any longer distances.
John
Works for me on saltwater Canadas using the original Hevi-Shot. I have bunches of it left in #4 and #6 and I'm glad I got it while it was relatively cheap. The #6 will work just fine on Canadas at 35 or 40 yards. I haven't tried it at any longer distances.
John
Tom Held
Member
These are birds with feathers. They aren't wearing flak jackets. 3" number 2 or BB steel will kill them out to 50 yards. Most decoying geese here in Maryland are shot around 30 yards. When steel shot first became a law in Maryland years ago it was only for 12 gauge guns. So for two years we just went back to 20 gauge 2 3/4 inch guns with lead 2s and 4s and still killed our geese.
chas08
Member
I agree. the problem here in south Texas is getting Snow Geese within 50 yds. Especially later in the season. I've had many ocasions when #4 Hevi-shot would have been plenty for close decoying Canadas or Specks. But on the same day, you couldn't get a Snow within 70 yds. Thats why we use the big shot sizes like BBB or T down here.
orphanedcowboy
Member
Specks and Greaters both, but it is rare we target them.
Hunted them in Pampa and used #4 Wingmaster HD with no problems.
Hunted them in Pampa and used #4 Wingmaster HD with no problems.
chas08
Member
I've always wanted to do a panhandle Goose hunt, but it's such a ride from here. Maybe after I retire in a couple of years. We seldom get Greaters this far south. Lessers were scarce, where I hunt, last year. Our main species are Snows, Blues, and Ross's. And usually in numbers that are hard to fool. So you have to take the shots (within reason) the day presents.
MCgunner
Member
I can't count how many times I've laid BB steel on a goose at 40-50 yards, watched feathers fly off, heard the "blap" of the hit, seen him bounce 5 yards higher, and fly on. Probably died somewhere down the road, didn't see him fall, though. Ts or BB hevi shot will shoot right through 'em at 40, leave and exit wound, and knock 'em dead at 60. I got serious and quit playing with BB guns. Since hevi shot is prohibitively expensive, steel T does the job on a better budget.
Yeah, inside 30 yards I've killed 'em with 20 gauge lead number 5s, even shot a big greater canada when I was a kid with it. We snuck up a fence line to within 25 yards of those canadas and unloaded on 'em. Knocked down three. When I got a 16 to hunt geese with, I loaded with 2. My buddy had a 12 gauge Marlin goose gun and shot BB and killed better at longer range than I could. We were pass shooting.
Steel shot laws are stupid, but I won't go there.
Yeah, inside 30 yards I've killed 'em with 20 gauge lead number 5s, even shot a big greater canada when I was a kid with it. We snuck up a fence line to within 25 yards of those canadas and unloaded on 'em. Knocked down three. When I got a 16 to hunt geese with, I loaded with 2. My buddy had a 12 gauge Marlin goose gun and shot BB and killed better at longer range than I could. We were pass shooting.
Steel shot laws are stupid, but I won't go there.
chaser_2332
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3.5" all the way
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