.30-06 bullet weight ?

[ARGarrison]

Okay so I recently purchased a bolt action rifle in .30-06. Being here in Indiana it won't be a Deer rifle anytime soon. More of a paper puncher nothing super long range or even close to it. I am at a crossroads as to what bullet weight to go with before finding something that works for me. I figure on either the 150 grain or 165 grain bullets. Besides the 15 grains is there any real differance between the like bullets in the same weight?

 

[eliphalet]

I think there is probably more available in the 150 grains, plus 150's can be bought in bulk saving plenty. I am shooting Remington Core-Lokt;s I paid less than a dime apiece for by the 1000. A guy might work some with both and see what his particular gun likes the best.
There isn't a buncha difference in the two. A Comparison can be seen here.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

 

[rcmodel]

I think 165 - 168 is about the optimum weight in the 30-06.

But for your stated use, just about anything available should work just fine.

Light bullets kick less then heavy bullets.


rcmodel

 

[browningguy]

It really does depend on the gun. I have an HK that will only shoot well with 150's, and a BAR that shoots like a shotgun with anything lighter than 180's. I'd try a box of each weight to see which it prefers first.

 

[Fumbler]

The short answer is try the 165-168gr loads.

A big consideration in what bullet weight to pick is the twist rate.
Most 30-06 barrels have a 1:10" twist, which usually work best with 165-168gr bullets.

BUT, it's not really the weight that matters, it's the bullet length. So, if you use something like all copper Barnes bullets then you drop down one weight size and use the 150gr. Copper bullets are longer than jacketted lead bullets.

You should try many loads. Start off with the lower cost 150 and 165gr soft points.

Also try Federal Premium Ballistic Tips. They tend to shoot well in many guns. The 150gr Ballistic Tips shoot very well in my 308, but most other 150gr loads don't shoot as well as the 165-168gr loads. The 150gr Ballistic Tips shot well in my 30-06 when I had it.

The Federal Gold Metal 168gr BTHP and 168gr BTHP Black Hills Match are generally very accurate factory loads. You may also want to try the Gold Metal 175gr BTHP.

Besides the 15 grains is there any real differance between the like bullets in the same weight?

A few bullet designs will have slightly tougher jackets in the heavier bullets. Tougher jackets and slightly lower velocities would mean more penetration and less expansion. That doesn't matter when you're killing paper though.
Heavier bullets also tend to recoil more even though they go a little slower.
When you start shooting at very long ranges then you'll also see that heavier bullets can remain stable and resist wind longer than lighter bullets resulting in better accuracy.

There's a lot to learn about shooting, but you start by buying some cheap ammo and going to the range to experiment and get some experience.

 

[Commander Guineapig]

I was actually going to start a thread along these lines...

so let me add my own question to the fray:
I've looked at handloading some of my own 30-06 shells for long range
paper punching. I found in the Speer reloading manual that there are
100-115-120 grain bullets for the -06, and you can load these fairly hot,
as in over 3000 FPS. Is there anything wrong with a paper punching bullet going that fast?
And, would said bullets be accurate out at 300 yards? Or is their lack of weight something
that will cause the bullet to be unstable? My theory was to create a very flat shooting target round,
but I want to know more. What, in theory, is the best round for an -06 killing papers at 300 yards?

GP

 

[Bwana John]

double tap

 

[Bwana John]

What, in theory, is the best round for an -06 killing papers at 300 yards?

IMHO 168 gr BTHP @ 2850 fps muzzle velocity, H4350 for a bolt gun, H4895 for a autoloader.

For deer substitute the 168 gr BTHP for a 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip projectile

 

[Commander Guineapig]

OK, I think I could probably find those easy enough...
let me first say that I believe you fully.
But I have to know..

IMHO 168 gr BTHP @ 2850 fps muzzle velocity, H4350 for a bolt gun, H4895 for a autoloader.

For deer substitute the 168 gr BTHP for a 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip projectile

Why? What makes this so? I'd love to know more of the why, the
science behind it.
thanks!

GP

 

[Bwana John]

Some of the things are: ballistic coefficent of the projectile, where the weight is located on the projectile, the relationship between the projectiles lenght and weight and velocity to the twist of the barrel, and the construction and sectional density of the projectile (for downrange performance).
The speed (2850 fps) is for safe pressure in this bullet weight, in the 30-06 case.
The different burning rates between the powders is a function of the pressure/time curve, where and when the peak pressures occur in relationship to the position of the gas tap, or recoil opperations.

 

[mustanger98]

Tell ya'll what I've been doing lately...

In my Nat'l Ord. 1903A3 build with RA 8-44 barrel (2-groove), I've been firing 147gr BT-FMJ and 165gr Hornady SP over 44.9 and 46grs IMR4064, respectively. The 147's are hitting dead on at 25yds and 100yds on the 100yd setting. The 165's are hitting about 2" low at 25yds and somewhere in a fist-size rock at 100yds on the 300yd setting... this is the load I presently intend to deer hunt with.

Another thing I've done with this rifle... LazerCast 170gr LFP-GC seated to the crimp groove over 21-point-something grains of 2400. This one hits dead on at 100yds on the 700yd setting. I'm planning to change the powder charge to enough IMR4064 to run this bullet 2300-2500fps and see how that does.

 

[Fumbler]

Is there anything wrong with a paper punching bullet going that fast?

Not at all.

And, would said bullets be accurate out at 300 yards? Or is their lack of weight something
that will cause the bullet to be unstable?

Bullets that light probably won't shoot worth a darn at that range.
The bullets will simply be too short for good stabilization in your rifle (which is designed around 150-180gr bullets).
Also, bullets that light are poor at resisting wind.

What, in theory, is the best round for an -06 killing papers at 300 yards?

The Sierra hollow point/boat tailed hollow point Matchking and Palma bullet design in 155-175gr have been proven by benchrest shooters to be most accurate.
Other manufacturers make the same design, so you aren't limited to Sierra (though I've found the Hornady version doesn't shoot as well as the Sierras in my 308).

My theory was to create a very flat shooting target round,
but I want to know more.

If you want flat shooting accuracy you have to push it faster.
Simple as that.

If you get a 300 Winmag you can shoot those 155-175 BTHP faster.

You can also drop down in bullet diameter (7mm Mag or those smaller caliber short mags). This lets you push the same profile bullet (which will be lighter) faster.

Shooting light bullets won't cut it unless you get your rifle rebarreled to a slower twist that can stabilize lighter bullets.

Your best bet is to buy a box of 168gr Matchkings, work up until you find a load that works the best, then learn the trajectory. Compensating for bullet drop easier than trying to get a light bullet to shoot accurately in a gun that's not designed for it.

Google bench rest and 30-06 and you'll probably find enough information to make you sick from reading.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Fumbler Quoted:

Google bench rest and 30-06 and you'll probably find enough information to make you sick from reading.

Knowledge is power. Knowledge not used is wasted.

 

[Snapping Twig]

I could be mistaken, but I've always understood that Marine snipers use a 168 grain bullet. The 1000 yard match at Camp Perry is also dominated by these rounds, so far as I know. Again, I could be mistaken.

I personally prefer the 165g bullet in a 30-06 and that's all I shoot, save for some Barnes in 180 and 200, but this is rare for me.

 

[Never No More]

I run 150s in my gas gun

Was running 168 SMKs in my M700, moved up to 178 Max.

Once you get past the sting in your arm, the bullets go where you send them, as far as you wish them to go.

Would not recomend the A-Max for hunting. Not a pretty sight when they are done with meat.

 

[USSR]

I could be mistaken, but I've always understood that Marine snipers use a 168 grain bullet. The 1000 yard match at Camp Perry is also dominated by these rounds, so far as I know. Again, I could be mistaken.

Nope. The Marines and Army snipers both use the M118LR round in 7.62x51 (.308 Win.) loaded with a 175gr Sierra MatchKing bullet. The 168gr Sierra MatchKing was originally developed for 300 meter shooting, and is not a good bullet for 1,000 yard shooting.

As for the .30-06, I use the 190gr Sierra MatchKing bullet exclusively. As long as you're not loading for a Garand, this is perhaps the ideal bullet weight for a cartridge with the case capacity of the '06.

Don

 

[GooseGestapo]

For your purposes (paper punching at ranges =<300yds, consider the 125-130gr bullets in your '06.

I've gotten accuracy as good as the rifles are capable of through my "06's and '308 through the years with the following bullets:
125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
125gr Sierra
130gr Speer FNSP
130gr Speer HP
130gr Hornady PtSP

I've loaded these mostly over IMR4064, and some with IMR3031. (most of my "eperience" dates back to the '70's and early '80's so many of the newer powders were unavailable) At velocities of 2,800 to 3,200fps these bullets have never failed to please.
Most of my experience with the 110's is they aren't quite as accurate as the 125's from the 1/10 twist of the '06. Results with the 1/12 of the .308 and .30wcf have been better.

FWIW, my brother won quite a few 200yd rapidfire matches with his M1 shooting the 125's in lieu of the 168's he usually used for 200 and 300yd stages. He of course prefered the 175's once they came on the market. However, the 155gr Palma bullets gave splendid accuracy too.

For reduced recoil loads, a 125gr bullet loaded to about 2,800fps is splendidly accurate and is equal or better on deer to 300yds than such as the .25/06, .257Roberts, .243wcf, ect. which roughly duplicate this wt, velocity, energy, ect.

But, for "PAPER-PUNCHING", with the 'ole '06, it dosen't get any better than a 160-175gr cast bullet over 20-25gr of Alliant #2400.

Mine and my brothers '06's (several !) will shoot sub-moa with this combination. My brother used the Lee .311-150GC (casts to 160gr w/w-w) to shoot some 1,000" matches (reduced target 27yd version) with the cast bullets and won several matches.

99% of my shooting, and most all others with the '06 is "paper-punching", so, for "funsies" try ALL bullet weights.
Think your buddies 7mag kicks? Try a couple of Norma's 220grRN through your 8lb '06 without a recoil pad!!! (220gr @ 2,650fps from my 24"bbl).

 

[rcmodel]

+1

Most 1/10 30-06's will do some fine shooting with 125 - 130 grain varmint loads as far as you need to be shooting them.

110's can do good work also, but drop off fast and get blown around by the wind much more. I've killed a ton of coyotes at 300+ yards with both bullet weights in 06's. I will say though that the 110 grain bullets are "over-kill" on coyotes!

1/12 .308's can be very accurate with 110 grain bullets.


rcmodel

 

[jpwilly]

Many Match bullets don't become more "accurate" untill they have traveled a certain distance. At 100 yards you may not be able to tell a difference between a most hunting bullets and match bullets. At longer ranges like 600yrds on the other hand there may be a significant difference between the two.

 

[mustanger98]

At 100 yards you may not be able to tell a difference between a most hunting bullets and match bullets.

That seems to be the case with my loads I told about back up this thread. Accuracy-wise, between the 147grBT-FMJ's and the Hornady 165grSP's, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. That's with having to use two different sight settings... accuracy's to the same level, seems to me, but they just travel different trajectories. I've noticed the same deal between those and the cast bullets too, slower as they are.

 

[Commander Guineapig]

major thanks for the answers guys...
I dug out some of my dad's reloading manuals (good ol Speer), and a few others, and just reading about bullet behavior in general
is really interesting. It's helped me understand that you cannot just power the living heck out of a 100 grain bullet and expect it to fly true.
It seems there are other factors that I keep finding out about.
I think some of this reading has also helped me get a grip on the idea of the barrel twist impacting accuracy the way it does...
I remember reading a line about .223s loaded real hot where the barrel twist was so tight that the bullets tore themselves apart from over rotation
at certain muzzle velocities and such. Talk about over load...
Again, thanks for the info!

GP

 

[ARGarrison]

I'd like to thank everyone takeing the time to answer my question. The rule of supply and demand made the choice easy for me. I was planning to get 165grain bulets in core lokt and power point. Remington and Winchester both having a buy up to two boxes get up to ten dollars back rebate. I ended up getting both Remington and Winchester loadings in 150 grain. I could not find any core lokt or power points in 165 grain locally. I thought of picking up a box of 180 grain anything just to try and never found them either.

 

[Dan360]

150 vs 165

I use the 165's to hunt because the mule deer around here are 200+ pounds and must be shot from longer ranges. I like the 165 because it retains a little more energy and bucks wind a bit better than the 150. I'm not sure if its enough to really notice a difference, but it gives me a bit more confidence. The 150 is a great bullet that is loaded pretty quick in most factory loads. I have chronographed the Federal Premium 150 gr Nosler Ballistic load out of my 30-06 with a 24 inch barrel. The box says 2910 FPS, but I was closer to 2930. Shoots super flat and does a real number on coyotes (never shot a deer with a 150 grainer, probably would do just as much damage).