30 Carbine brass question

[16in50calNavalRifle]

One for the experienced 30 Carbine reloaders here: do you do any check of your used brass before reloading other than the visual check for obvious cracks or other problems?

As I have started to trim my 30 Carbine brass before reloading, I have ample opportunity to visually pick out any cases with splits or other major problems and toss them into the recycling can.

But I am wondering if that is safe and sufficient (right now it seems so to me). I am assuming that 30 Carbine brass will show you when it's finished, like pistol brass, and that no special physical evaluations are needed, for example as with checking the inside of 30-06 cases for signs of case head separation.

A related question is how long one can expect to use 30 Carbine brass (both carbines in question are not rough on the brass in ejection), assuming a standard load of 110g FMJs and 15g of H110.

 

[morrow]

30 carbine is different than most other straight wall cases. It stretches. You need to check to make sure the OAL is no longer than 1.290". If it is trim to 1.280".

Also, you need to lube 30 carbine even if you're using carbide dies. The brass is thicker and has a taper to it.

Beyond that normal checks for cracks. The brass will have the same type of wear as other pistol brass aside from stretching.

Also for loading, Berry's and Xtreme make really good quality plated bullets for 30 carbine that are rated up to 1900fps last I checked. That's all I use when i'm doing standard loads. They're cheaper than buying 110gr FMJs

 

[Hacker15E]

30 carbine is different than most other straight wall cases. It stretches.

I see this repeated all the time when referencing .30 Carbine for the M1, but have ever seen a reason stated for why this is; for why a single type of semiauto straight-walled cartridge that headspaces on the rim is any different than the others.

Anyone know why trimming is so much of a high interest item for this, but not for other similar rounds?

 

[evan price]

Beware of Berdan primed rounds. There is ChiCom counterfeit "LC 52" out there that is Berdan primed.

 

[USSR]

30 carbine is different than most other straight wall cases. It stretches. You need to check to make sure the OAL is no longer than 1.290". If it is trim to 1.280".

Also, you need to lube 30 carbine even if you're using carbide dies. The brass is thicker and has a taper to it.

Beyond that normal checks for cracks. The brass will have the same type of wear as other pistol brass aside from stretching.

+1.

I see this repeated all the time when referencing .30 Carbine for the M1, but have ever seen a reason stated for why this is; for why a single type of semiauto straight-walled cartridge that headspaces on the rim is any different than the others.

Hacker15E,

Don't know why. May be because the case is long, tapered, and operates at high pressure. All I know is, that is the way it is.

Don

 

[cfullgraf]

I see this repeated all the time when referencing .30 Carbine for the M1, but have ever seen a reason stated for why this is; for why a single type of semiauto straight-walled cartridge that headspaces on the rim is any different than the others.

FYI, 30 Carbine headspaces on the case mouth, not the rim.

I wonder if the folks with 30 Carbine Blackhawks experience the same case stretch as M1 30 Carbine owners do?

 

[carbine85]

I get good life out of my .30 Carbine cases. I give them the usual visual inspection, clean them up and inspect again. After resizing I check them again.
I have brass that's been reloaded 5 -6x or more.
As stated above the OAL of the case is important given that the .30 headspaces against the end of the case.
If you have a well used USGI Carbine you might want to measure the head space. If it falls into the acceptable standards you can than figure out what your max OAL is for that rifle and trim the cases to that spec.
My range gun has a chamber that's on the shorter end and doesn't put much stress on the cases. Most cases require a minimal trim after every other firing.
I have also found IMHO that the Carbine doesn't benefit from hotter loads, so save your rifle and brass from the wear & tear.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

15gr of H110 is pretty warm. 13gr. of that powder w/ a magnum primer is all you need to duplicate the military load.

 

[jcwit]

I get good life out of my .30 Carbine cases. I give them the usual visual inspection, clean them up and inspect again. After resizing I check them again.
I have brass that's been reloaded 5 -6x or more.
As stated above the OAL of the case is important given that the .30 headspaces against the end of the case.
If you have a well used USGI Carbine you might want to measure the head space. If it falls into the acceptable standards you can than figure out what your max OAL is for that rifle and trim the cases to that spec.
My range gun has a chamber that's on the shorter end and doesn't put much stress on the cases. Most cases require a minimal trim after every other firing.
I have also found IMHO that the Carbine doesn't benefit from hotter loads, so save your rifle and brass from the wear & tear.

Right on. I reload a mild load of 12 grains of 4227, not a hot load at all.

I see this repeated all the time when referencing .30 Carbine for the M1, but have ever seen a reason stated for why this is; for why a single type of semiauto straight-walled cartridge that headspaces on the rim is any different than the others.

Anyone know why trimming is so much of a high interest item for this, but not for other similar rounds?

This may better explain the headspace issue. Scroll down.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/safety.html

 

[morrow]

I personally use 12.1gr if AA#9 with Berry's or Xtreme plated bullets. It's a good mild load I get good accuracy results with. I like AA#9 because it's not as hot and uses a little less powder than the other options.

 

[ReloaderFred]

The .30 Carbines stretches because it's a tapered case, and the pressure on the walls of the case force brass to flow. It has to go somewhere, and the case mouth is the only place it can go.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[billymarr]

As for us Black Hawk owners yes and if you have a tight gun it is a pain. I check the brass with calipers after each firing and trim after sizing.

 

[Maj Dad]

I have some cases I've been reloading for a long time (since early 80's); I started off full-power, and over the course of firings have relegated them to lower pressure cast bullet loads. One thing I do with multi-fired cases is check the inside case wall just above the web for that little indention that indicates excessive stretch (I use a paper clip with a slightly rounded tip). Any that have more than barely discernible rings I toss. I haven't had a case separation with any of them, and don't want to. And it may sound like heresy or apostasy, but I never trimmed any of them until recently, and then just because I picked up a trimmer for 30 carb (I trim bottle neck cases religiously). I haven't found any that were much over, if at all. Not arguing, suggesting, or refuting, just reporting my experience...

(all are fired in GI carbines)

 

[jcwit]

Whats your load Maj.? Wondering as I also shoot cast in mine.

 

[donkee]

15g of h110 is a pretty hot load. With 14g I get an average velocity of 1884fps. I took one shot over the chrony at 14.6g. 2000fps was a little much for me to run through any of my M1 Carbines.

A couple years back I was at the 100yrd line shortly after a local CMP match. I found a bunch of horribly bulged M1 Carbine cases.

Did you want them back?

 

[16in50calNavalRifle]

Thanks for all the replies. I believe the M1's bolt and the potential for out-of-battery firing may be the reason for the focus on headspace and case length, but I might be getting that mixed up with another design. In any case I don't mind trimming (it's quite quick and easy with a drill and the Forster trimmer).

As for loads, I think my most recent loads were 14.8g of H110. Below that - and with most factory, esp. Aguilla - my 1943 Quality Hardware was shooting quite low even @ 100yds. Had a few failures-to-cycle with my lighter test loads, too. So my load was mostly an attempt at getting a normal POI - no interest in "warm" loads for me, in any caliber - and I'm conscious of wear-and-tear issues. Maybe I'll just move the rear sight to 300yds (it's right-on for 100yds with the rear sight @250yds), do some vertical Kentucky windage of my own, and call it good with lighter loads (plinking and shorter range action match shooting is all that's done with that rifle).

I have an Auto Ordnance reproduction that shoots quite well with factory and reloads.

Glad to hear the brass lasts. I was hoping not to do the case-wall-with-the-paper-clip thing, but maybe I will after about 5-6 reloadings, just to be sure. Getting another 1,000 once-fired cases tomorrow for a good price, so I'll have lots of brass. Hoping to get the wife interested in the carbines as fun and easy to shoot, so with luck I'll be doing a fair amount of reloads on these.

I have some LC 52 - but it's pull-down brass and obviously boxer, so now worries about Chinese berdan cases.

 

[Rottweiler]

+1 on what Evan said. I have broke a decap pin on those

 

[carbine85]

As for loads, I think my most recent loads were 14.8g of H110. Below that - and with most factory, esp. Aguilla - my 1943 Quality Hardware was shooting quite low even @ 100yds. Had a few failures-to-cycle with my lighter test loads, too. So my load was mostly an attempt at getting a normal POI - no interest in "warm" loads for me, in any caliber - and I'm conscious of wear-and-tear issues. Maybe I'll just move the rear sight to 300yds (it's right-on for 100yds with the rear sight @250yds), do some vertical Kentucky windage of my own, and call it good with lighter loads (plinking and shorter range action match shooting is all that's done with that rifle).

It's not unusual for a Carbine to shoot high or to low. The manuals address this and recommend either replacing the front sight or filing down the front post. As far as windage goes this is also a common problem. The best way to correct that assuming you don't have enough adjust is to move the rear sight and restake it. From my experience the rear sight assemblies need to be mounted more to the left of center.

 

[16in50calNavalRifle]

Well I probably will just made do with the carbine as-is one way or the other, while trying to keep my loads in the 14g range. No need for great accuracy at longer ranges in my uses, for the moment.