300 Win Mag (Krieger bbl) range report

[Trent]

OK, I spent this weekend prepping some ammo for 300 Win Mag and I finally took out my rebarreled Savage 112 300 Win Mag with the fresh Krieger barrel. I'd previously broke it in w/ 50 rounds of non-prepped ammo, using Krieger's recommended break in regimen.

Brass was WW virgin, prepped as follows:

1. Necks rounded w/ RCBS sizer w/ .305" expander plug
2. Trimmed to 2.610" on RCBS power trimmer w/ 3 way cutter
3. Necks expanded on Redding sizer to .3065" (so they would fit my Hart neck turner)
4. Necks turned on R W Hart neck turner to OD of .3335
5. Primer pockets uniformed using Redding tool
6. Flash hole uniformed and deburred using Lyman tool
7. Hand primed w/ RCBS hand primer
8. Powder weighed on RCBS electronic scale w/ auto dispenser
9. Bullets seated w/ Redding competition seating die

Cases are not weight sorted yet - figured I'd fireform and process once fired, then sort them out by weight. I'll be using a .335 bushing when reloading to set internal neck diameter of .307 (.001 neck tension).

Loaded 220 grain Sierra Match Kings.

Shot (4) 5 shot groups at 100 yards (with incrementing powder charge), each group was one ragged hole. By then I'd tested up to .2 gr below max load for H4831SC (69.5 gr).

I stepped it out to 300 yards. Shot (6) 5 shot groups at 300 yards w/ the 69.5gr lot, avg was 2.75" with best being 1.95".

Hoping that once I get the rust shaken loose, and the cases are fireformed, and weight sorted, I can find a powder / velocity the rifle likes a little better. Was hoping for sub 1.5" - but I'm a bit rusty, and those factory fresh cases had some dents and dings on them...

(Wish I could spring for a batch of Norma brass, got a couple boxes of that for 308 and was 100% impressed with the brass quality... but they want a testicle and an arm these days).

 

[MtnCreek]

Unfortunately, Norma’s about the only game for high quality .300wm brass.

 

[MrOldLude]

Pretty good groups, no doubt. Any idea of what the rifle was capable of with the old Savage barrel?

 

[Trent]

Yes, at the end of the life of my previous factory barrel, after 12 years of load development, it was routinely putting in <1" groups at 300. I wouldn't have traded it for the world, but throat erosion finally got me (around the 1600 round mark?). In the end, I was having to clean the rifle of fouling every single shot (with long sessions afterwards at night w/ the copper solvent).

I've proofed up to my previous load strengths but my old favorite load w/ H1000 is definitely not liked by this new barrel - gave me a 4" group (4.00 on the nose) at 300 yd during break in. 4831SC is looking promising so far. As was usual with my old barrel, this one was tightening up as I ramped up the power charge - 3.75" at 2600fps, 3.0" at 2700fps, 2.0" at 2775 fps w/ 220 gr Sierra Matchkings.

This barrel is a slightly different length and profile than my old one (26" non fluted vs. 24" fluted on original), and is rifled with a different twist rate and # of lands, so it's not surprising I'm having to find a new "sweet spot".

I may have to pick a different weight bullet in the end. My old rifle loved 220 gr bullets. I have about 600 Sierra matchkings in this weight still (bought a big ass box of them off Midway few years ago). So if it ends up liking 180's or 200's ... might be a bit of a sad day.

Got a few boxes of different brands / bullets to play with, some Barnes, some Hornaday, etc.

I worked up the # of combinations of powder type / powder weight / bullet type / bullet weight / seating depth, and I'm pretty sure I'll burn THIS barrel up by the time I find a great combo (same story as the last one haha!)

Took 12 years to get the last one down to 0.3MOA ... I'm patient.

 

[grubbylabs]

Looks like you are having loads of fun.

My win70 really likes 7828SSC close to the minimum. But I bought some RL to try in it I don't remember for sure but I think it was RL 22 and it came highly recommended my several different folks.

 

[Clark]

I have only one Krieger barrel that I have actually put on a rifle and took it to the range.

I only shot 5 groups.

Even the best group is not a ragged hole. One of the holes is not touching the others.

But I can tell that Kriegers are good barrels. I am not sure they are any better than Shilen stainless select match, which I can get a deal on, and are in stock.

 

[Trent]

When I talked to John at Krieger, he said Savage has put out some damn fine barrels, and I may not see any better accuracy with their barrel. Have to appreciate a no BS attitude like that.

The Krieger barrel took about 6 months from the time I ordered (I sent them my stripped rifle, and had them fit it to the action). The fit and finish was perfect. Scoped the bore and it was perfect. Never seen a barrel that didn't have tool marks in it before. (This is my first "premium" barrel)

If I ever manage to shoot out the bore of my Savage 22-250, I will probably have it redone there. My 22-250 (varmint model, with the HEAVY weighted stock), was a tack driver out of the box - .5 MOA from the get go, and it stays under 1 MOA no matter what the hell I feed it.

Savage does make some fine barrels. I've also owned a couple that I traded in right away. One 308 "tactical" 110FP couldn't hold a group, period, with anything. Worst shooting bolt gun I'd ever bought. Also had one in 270 win that was horribly inaccurate. And a 300 Win Mag scout (god that thing packed a whallop, only weighed 5 lbs). That beast walked at the 2 oclock position - barrel heated instantly and started flexing. Same problem on an old weatherby.

Bolt guns.. sometimes you get a great shooting one.. sometimes you get a lemon. I imagine barrels are about the same. No two are ever exactly alike.

 

[MtnCreek]

Bolt guns.. sometimes you get a great shooting one.. sometimes you get a lemon. I imagine barrels are about the same. No two are ever exactly alike.

I think you're 100% on the mark there! It just seems like some are blessed. What gets me is I bet the shooter and the non-shooter are manufactured the exact same way, one took and the other just didn't.

 

[Trent]

Yeah definitely. Metallurgy and alloys, despite all of our combined knowledge and technology, is still an inexact science. Even tightly controlled manufacturing will leave a barrel with pockets of slightly varying carbon - you'll see the effects of this in barrel "walk" as barrels heat up.

This krieger barrel stays dead-nuts-on even after a string of 20, when it's too hot to touch and mirage is making it hard to see the target. My old factory barrel, despite being accurate as all get-out on a cold bore, would start walking the 2 o clock position after shot #5 or 6. Bullseyes at 300 yards on it on first shot cold bore were not uncommon. But on hot days, or on strings over 5, I had to start compensating to keep them on target. After the 5th shot I'd start holding down-left a little more and more. Would keep good groups that way but I had to keep a round-counter going in my head, as well as some track of how much time had passed. Based on mirage from my barrel I could also get an idea of how high-right she was going to shoot.

This barrel, doesn't appear that I'll have to do that. But I found myself in old habits and widened two groups with this new barrel, by compensating for the old barrel's walk without thinking! Since the rifle feels identical to me as it did before, I've got 1500-1600 rounds of pattern to break.

The great news about my groups this time out is they were circular - not wide or tall. That means my load is consistent and I haven't forgot how to read wind sign. (If they were wide I wasn't reading wind right, and it was windy). If they were tall I'd have to get the chrony out to see how far off my velocity spread was.

So, more work on finding a load. Got 3 different powders to test, going to try them out in different weights for 210gr barnes and 220 gr sierra matchking ... Figuring 4 powder weights for each combo for each powder, that's 24 lots to test, 10 rounds each.

240 shots + 125 that I've already shot, this barrel will already be done with 20% of it's estimated lifespan! That's 4 good weekends of shooting this winter. Shoulder can't take more than 50 rounds out of this in one day, and it needs a week to heal between.

 

[briang7511]

what type of primers are you using?

 

[Trent]

Just normal Winchester brand Magnum Large Rifle. Old lot, in a white box.

I also have some blue boxed Winchester "for magnum or standard large rifle loads" that are a lot colder - but use those in the 308. They didn't work so well with 300 Win Mag - got very inconsistent velocity, and a lot of fouling. In the 308 I have to back powder down a hair or I get signs of overpressure towards max loads.

I use Remington small rifle benchrest primers for the 22-250. (Forget the # off the top of my head).

 

[Trent]

When I was testing more extensively back in 09, I found that prepping the primer pocket / deburring the flash holes didn't make NEARLY as much of a difference on velocity deviation as neck turning did.

I experimented quite a bit back then. Neck turning, by and large, made the single biggest difference. However, what you're after is uniform neck TENSION.. not a specific diameter. You have to match your neck turning to a specific bushing size, to get an inner diameter of .001 (or thereabouts) smaller than the diameter of the bullet you are seating.

Measuring a lot of 100 factory Winchester brass, neck thickness varied from 0.014125" to 0.01575".

It's worth noting that in this new Krieger barrel, neck thickness over .339 will NOT chamber. They said it was reamed to .340 but it's closer to .3392 - Has a tight chamber. So a goodly chunk (15% or so) of that winchester brass wouldn't even chamber if loaded, without neck turning.

Anyway, uniform tension on the neck is one of the prime ingredients for high accuracy, and it's obtained by neck turning and using the appropriate bushings in sizing dies designed to accept them.

When just doing flash hole deburring / primer pocket uniforming, I saw ZERO net effect on groups or standard deviation on velocity. Maybe for smaller calibers, it'd be more noticeable, but those magnum rifle primers don't seem to care about small things like burrs on the inside.

I still clean 'em out, because it don't take long and I need all extraneous material removed to weigh the cases on an even heeling, but it doesn't DO any good accuracy wise.

 

[MtnCreek]

Just normal Winchester brand Magnum Large Rifle. Old lot, in a white box.

I also have some blue boxed Winchester "for magnum or standard large rifle loads" that are a lot colder - but use those in the 308.

I must be behind the times. I’m using mostly Win LR primers; blue box, but they are marked as ‘standard’ or ‘magnum’, not both. I use the ‘magnum’ primers for .300wm and a few other loads. The only Win primers I have that say for ‘standard or magnum’ are LP primers.

How's that 4831sc burning? I never could get a clean burn out of it. H1000 has performed best for me in a factory Rem barrel; it's a shame it's not giving you good performance. I've recently started playing around with R25 and it's looking promising.

My hat's off to you if you can stand 50rds of 220gr SMK's!

 

[Trent]

4831SC is burning pretty dirty. After 20 shots I have to run 5-6 patches down the barrel. H1000 was burning nice and clean, but I'm not grouping well with it on this one.

I shoot this rifle mostly in the cold months so I gain the benefit of a jacket between me and the rifle. Still get gnarley bruises. In the summer I'll throw my man-card in for debit, and put a sock full of socks between me and the rifle if I'm shooting that much.

The "Standard or Magnum" primers I got were a one-off thing I bought back in 1999, I've never seen them for sale before or since. Must not have been popular. I'm down to 300 of them - pretty much the last thing I reach for when going for primers.

 

[grubbylabs]

If you are not looking for barn burners the 7828 burns very clean in my gun and was very accurate, however it was quite slow. My 165 were only going 2,700 and my 180's were just over 2,500. Definitely not magnum performance, but they work for me at least.

 

[Trent]

Early indicators were this barrel is more consistent with hotter loads, but ya never know. I'll keep an eye out for it and get some if I see it.

PS I'll toss a shameless plug in for my old friend - Daves Trading Post in Pekin, IL is a GREAT spot for picking up reloading supplies in Central Illinois. He's got damn near everything a reloader could want, and then some. We used to go in-bulk together for components when I had my gun shop, his prices are always excellent.