300 WINMAG 6" groups down to quarter size

[elkhunterCO]

Brand new FN (Winnie) model 70 Supergrade in 300, shot terrible 6+ inch groups at 100 yards.

Was getting very close to doing a RE- bedding job on it as the factory bedding looked OK but was very, very tight stock to action fit.

Today I put a business card under the fore end of the stock and fired-- groups shrunk incredibly -- no more 5" flyers.

What do you guys think about putting some Miles Gilbert Bedrock under the fore end tip?

I don't know gunsmith secrets, would I be better off doing something else?

 

[rcmodel]

I would suspect there is more going on with the bedding them forend bedding pressure can correct.

I would suspect the action bedding, and/or the recoil lug bedding, or loose action screws is allowing the whole thing to float around in the stock.

But, If I paid the price for a brand new Super-Grade Model 70 that shot 6" groups?

It would be on the way back to Winchester on their dime already and let then figure out what they screwed up.

Once you start dinking with it with bedding compound, your warranty is flushed down the toilet from now on.

Let them fix it while you still have that option!

rc

 

[elkhunterCO]

I tried sending it back to Winchester on their dime... Was given the runaround....

The action screws are torqued to factory spec.

RC- I value your opinion(seen hundreds of your posts and they always make the most sense) Do you think I should re-bed it anyway?

 

[rcmodel]

Run-around my south end!

You must have paid $1,300 plus for it, and it doesn't shoot.

Make them fix it.

Failing that, completely bed the action & recoil lug first, and free-float the barrel.
Or, completely bed the whole thing including the barrel to seal the stock totally.

You don't want forend pressure on a fancy wood stock hunting rifle determining whether it will group or not.
Every change in humidity will likely change the forend stock pressure on the barrel.
And change the zero every time the weather changes.

rc

 

[OYE]

Stock bedding

I think RC is right about pressuring them to take it back and fix it. And when and if that is exhausted then rebedding with a floated barrel is probably the best option.
Some things to ask yourself
1. Is the action and recoil lug glass bedded now ?
2. Is the the barrel free floated now ?
3. Was the exact same ammunition used with the 6 " group as the the Quarter inch group?


The answers to these questions are for you not for me. They may influence the direction you wish to go. For instance if the barrel is not floated now, it can be floated fairly easily to see where your at ( assuming the action and recoil lug are glass bedded). OYE

 

[elkhunterCO]

To Oye:

The action was glass bedded at the factory. Recoil lug and tang. The recoil lug was bedded extremely tight, no relief on the sides or front, kind of a pressed in type of fit.

The barrel was advertised as free floated. However, MY gun one side of the barrel channel on the fore end tip was touching. After my first day shooting it I sanded the tip to free float it thinking that was possibly a reason for poor grouping.

Ammo: All ammo I have tried produced poor groups. Today I was shooting a box of 180 grain core lokts. and put a business card under the fore end after my first 4 shots and the rest of my shots produced groups that a quarter would cover all the holes.

BTW: I have tried two different scopes, different bases and rings. I finally got onto something today... consistent groups by adding a little fore end pressure. Just wondering if this is something I should try to pursue by bedding the fore end? OR should I start by rebedding the action? It is a 26" long barrel that is pretty thin

 

[rcmodel]

Read post #4 again.
To the very bitter end.

I'm too tired to type all about humidity changing fancy grain wood pressure bedded stocks again tonight.

rc

 

[elkhunterCO]

Thanks RC, point taken. Might try to call Winchester again on monday

 

[OYE]

stock bedding

I think you are covering all your bases o.k.. You are confident in your scope and bases. (The reason I mentioned ammo is that some rifles will not shoot
boat tail bullets well, meaning they may not hit a 16" target at 100 yds regularly, but will shoot flat base bullets well, less than one inch at 100 yds. There is a specific reason for that, but it doesn't sound like that is the issue, so there is no reason to go into it.) Some rifles group 2 1/2 " at 100 yds out of a clean bore, 10 shots later they tighten up to 1/2" and will shoot the next 50 rounds same way. Some rifles will shoot a nice 1/2 " group with one brand of ammo and shoot a 1/2" group with another brand (with same the weight of bullet) but
with a 3" gap between the groups. This really isn't that uncommon at all.

I can't say you will not have to add fore end pressure. But for the reasons RC
gave, it's usually not advisable with a wood stock. Most guns will shoot well with the tang and recoil lug bedded (and many do pillar bedding) and the barrel floated. Generally I prefer a space under the recoil lug and enough room on the front of the lug to ease in disassembly (rather than having to rap the barrel lightly on the bench).

But this 6 " inch group is way out of what I would expect out of the factory. And more than I would expect from most bedding issues.

Your 180 gr. Rem core lokts are quite capable of 1/2" groups at 100 yds ( and are flat base as well). If your 6 " groups were also with these same bullets and your same scope/ mount setup, you've then eliminated those variables at least.

I always want to find out what is causing the problem if possible. So if you strike out with the manufacturer, I would relieve any pressure under the recoil lug first and make sure you can slide a sheet of printer paper under the barrel from muzzle to recoil lug. And if you are still shooting 6 inch groups, then you
have to consider either rebedding the action and recoil lug with a floated barrel
or full length bedding or simply just adding fore end pressure ( which can easily be removed, scraped and sanded out, I'd guess).

And before I started the rebedding project I would give the Sierra tech guys ( the Bulletsmiths) a call and see what they have to say. They have the biggest database on gun problems in the industry and will usually answer your question whether you are shooting Sierra bullets or not and can often tell you what brands are more susceptible to the different issues.

Anyway please post what you end up doing and the end result. OYE

 

[243winxb]

Try more clearance around the barrel. You may need more than a business card. If you can smack the bottom of the forearm stock with your hand & stock hits the barrel, you dont have enough clearance. Or try holding the forearm with your hand, place hand on bag/rest. No rear bag. Some rifles like this method better.

 

[627PCFan]

If winchester claims the guns fine in their hands I'd be asking what ammo they are running and copies of their targets.

 

[Sunray]

It's not unusual for any rifle to dislike a floated barrel. There's a giant myth that free floating a barrel will fix every accuracy issue. It does not. Some rifles just don't like it.
I'd still be inclined to bed the thing but put in a pressure point about an inch or so aft of the end of the forestock.
"...but was very, very tight stock to action fit..." That's how it should be. The whole purpose of bedding is to make the whole rifle homologous.
Never heard of Winchester doing factory glass bedding. The "the fore end tip was touching." thing indicates the bedding wasn't done correctly though.