I was fortunate enough to find some range brass yesterday, some of which is a mix of 308 and 7.62x51. I use 5.56 and 223 interchangeably. However I am hesitant to do the same for these. Are they different enough that I should treat them separately? The 7.62 is crimped at the primer pocket so that will have to be dealt with.
308 Winchester Brass vs 7.62 x 51 Brass
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FROGO207
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Some of the nato brass is thicker than commercial 308 with a thicker web as well. This means less internal case volume. Some nato is the same internal volume as commercial 308. You could measure weight, then measure it full of water and subtract the first measurment. That will be the case volume in grains. You will find differences. Work up your loads with the case volumes separately and save your results going forward. On average I find some nato brass charges are 10% less for the same results. LC varies year to year and it varies between brands. Once I find a good load with commercial brass I reduce charges an extra 10% and work up to accuracy with the same headstamp nato while keeping all other components equal.
Charlie98
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What Frogo said.
Generally speaking, commercial is thinner/lighter, but that is not absolute. There are also differences within the same headstamp... ask AJC1 about his adventures with Prvi brass.
The way I would treat it... the way I do... is use specific lots for specific firearms. My RP brass is only for my Savage bolt gun, my Prvi and LC is for my M1a. My mix-master brass I use in my Savage 99... with lower velocity cast loads where the brass capacity doesn't matter. If you are looking to just load plinking or blasting ammo, do the load workup in the heaviest brass (with the least internal volume...) that way you can load anything and not have to worry about pressure issues.
Generally speaking, commercial is thinner/lighter, but that is not absolute. There are also differences within the same headstamp... ask AJC1 about his adventures with Prvi brass.
The way I would treat it... the way I do... is use specific lots for specific firearms. My RP brass is only for my Savage bolt gun, my Prvi and LC is for my M1a. My mix-master brass I use in my Savage 99... with lower velocity cast loads where the brass capacity doesn't matter. If you are looking to just load plinking or blasting ammo, do the load workup in the heaviest brass (with the least internal volume...) that way you can load anything and not have to worry about pressure issues.
Nature Boy
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If your 7.62x51 range pick up was once fired it will likely need to have the primer pocket crimp removed before reloading
Unless you are OCD about everything being right and the same, you can shoot .308 Win/7.62x51mm through the same gun all day long.
If you are looking to make high precision target hits then pick one (.308 or 7.62x51mm) and use that for your precision target shooting.
You'll most likely find that one prefers a different powder charge than the other among other things.
I shoot whatever .308, 7.62x51mm brass I can find. I've had fantastic results and dismal results. (I exclusively target practice, 100-600 yards)
Right now I'm shooting Lake City pull down brass (.308) and have had outstanding results.
If you are looking to make high precision target hits then pick one (.308 or 7.62x51mm) and use that for your precision target shooting.
You'll most likely find that one prefers a different powder charge than the other among other things.
I shoot whatever .308, 7.62x51mm brass I can find. I've had fantastic results and dismal results. (I exclusively target practice, 100-600 yards)
Right now I'm shooting Lake City pull down brass (.308) and have had outstanding results.
I shoot Savage Long Range Hunter and Savage Trophy Hunter, both in bolt action .308.
Both seem to be doing very well with Lake City pull down brass...@ 100yards.
How they do @ 600 yards may be another story. I'll let ya know.
bluejay75
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LC, FC and Starline has similar enough case capacity for you to use load data interchangeably.
But different makers of 7.62 brass are all over the map. For example PPU 7.62 brass has as much capacity as Lapua which has a little more than a grain more capacity than LC.
As long as you aren’t near max, load and go. The more forgiving the load the less that little bit of capacity is going to matter.
But different makers of 7.62 brass are all over the map. For example PPU 7.62 brass has as much capacity as Lapua which has a little more than a grain more capacity than LC.
As long as you aren’t near max, load and go. The more forgiving the load the less that little bit of capacity is going to matter.
JFrank
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Please report back on your findings
Sure, will do.
I plan on hitting the range some time later this week.
Been raining a fair amount up in the mountains and it turns the roads to the range into a slip 'n' slide!
And I just drive an old mini van so I have to wait for things to dry out a bit.
Dale Alan
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Sounds like you need a small base die and work on your load .
Seems there might be an issue with the prepping of your brass, loads, seating depth, and types of bullets being shot...or I'm just a clueless moron that doesn't know what he's talking about.
Carl N. Brown
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My assumption is that military brass is thicker to stand up to rough handlng in full automatic weapons.
And people who have reloaded commercial .308 Win brass and military 7.62x51mm brass remind me to break down the verb "assume".
I don't reload .308 Win/7.62x51mm but I have helped my son reload .308. He prefers to start with new Lapua brass and not mix brass with unknown internal capacity.
And people who have reloaded commercial .308 Win brass and military 7.62x51mm brass remind me to break down the verb "assume".
I don't reload .308 Win/7.62x51mm but I have helped my son reload .308. He prefers to start with new Lapua brass and not mix brass with unknown internal capacity.
Charlie98
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My Savage 99F in .308 doesn't seem to care about brass... I have shot all manner of factory and handloads with military and commercial brass without problems in mine. What my 99 IS picky about is COAL, and particularly with pointed or BTHP bullets. If I seat them anywhere near max OAL for .308... I get cartridges stuck in the magazine. I have never had issues with stuck cases or feeding/extraction issues, to include with FP cast bullets and similar.
Yes and no. Brass is brass, and you can load any manner of .308 or '7.62mm' loads in any of it... with attention paid to heavier loads in cases with less capacity. You will see 'service rifle' loads, sometimes called 7.62mm loads (erroneously, IMHO...) which pick components, particularly powders, and sometimes primers, more suited to target shooting in a gas operated rifle... like an M1, M1a, or AR-10. Unlike the .223/Wilde/5.56mm differences, .308/7.62mm does not have chamber differences. You can load full-power .308 loads and shoot them in a gas gun, but sometimes loads like that can be hard on a particular rifle... and you can start breaking things.
AJC1
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Pick your level of OCD based on what your trying to accomplish. Brass is pretty far down the food chain of things that really matter. If your shooting bulk fmj just develop a safe load and hammer away. If your competing in a sanctioned event talk to your fellow competitors to guage what they are doing.
I’m not competing but I’d like to be able to match my other loads. The three I have done so far have test loads under 1 MOA and one of those is confirmed beyond getting one lucky group. I’ll see how many there are and decide if it’s worth it. Those tested loads were all with Winchester brand 308 Win brass.
Charlie98
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That is always my suggestion to anyone handloading with accuracy as the primary purpose. Rather than try to cobble together a batch of mix n match brass, just start with one lot of the best quality brass you can afford... it eliminates that variable completely, leaving you to focus on other things that you can't control so much.
Average Joe
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The 7.62x51 Nato brass is thicker, so you should back off on the powder charge about 2 grains.
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