357 mag hot load abuse in a GP100

[rollcrimp]

I read various comments about hot load abuse on revolvers. Since I shoot hot loads once in a blue I was interested in hearing about the effects to the revolver.
Let me qualify my hot load before i get chewed up. I shoot max published loads. The primers come out semi flattened but still have some roundness and the brass ejects freely. I use a 160 gr lead bullet moving pretty fast with H110 in a GP100 6".
To me hot load equals max published load. Please don't interject your description so you can pound me down I'm just interested.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Your hand will wear out before the gun.

 

[rchery59]

The gp100 is built like a tank. All Rugers are built like tanks. Like the previous poster said , your hand will wear out before the gun. I run heavy loads thru my Blackhawk with no fear of it ever shooting loose.

 

[rcmodel]

One can surmise that your car engine will last longer driving it 60 or 70 MPH then driving it 120 or 140 MPH everywhere you go.

The same can be surmised of any handgun.

However I would worry much more about a pre-war S&W then a new Ruger.

They still offer parts & a full factory warranty on your a Ruger.
Not so much on a 1936 S&W .357 Magnum.
Through no fault of S&W?

They are just as strong, but if you break it or wear it out, it is broke or wore out for good.

rc

 

[gamestalker]

I load H110/296 max loads in a variety of revolvers, but the Ruger is certainly one of those that can take a lot of this type loading without depleting it's integrity any time soon. I have also exposed my S&W 66's to years of full house H110/296 loads, and they're still tight and accurate. OTOH, a Ruger is going to ask for seconds, and with a smirk and grin.

GS

 

[Lucky Derby]

In a GP100, it's not an issue.

 

[RON in PA]

Shooting hot 125 grain .357 loads in Smith K-frame revolvers was the classic revolver wrecker. Your load with its slower heavy bullet probably wouldn't affect a K-frame and certainly shouldn't bother a GP100.

 

[Drail]

I have a GP 100 that has a forcing that was completely eaten up by shooting a steady diet of 125 gr. max loads (this load was straight out of the Speer No 11 manual). And it only about took 2 months during one summer. The GP is a very sturdy heavily built revolver but they can be abused and trashed just like any other gun. As long as you stay above 140 gr. at reasonable velocities you'll have no problems. Shoot a lot of 110-125 gr. flamethrower loads and it will cut the forcing cone just like an oxy-acetylene cutting torch. I used to believe the GP was indestructible. I know better now. Lots of people will swear to you that you can't hurt a GP 100. They just have never seen it done. If you work on many revolvers you will see this on any brand. The Kuhnhausen Ruger DA revolver shop manual has lots of photos of burnt out Rugers if you don't believe me.

 

[John C]

Drail;

About how many rounds did it take to make your GP unserviceable? Also, what powder were you using? I have a new-to-me GP100 and a 1000 125 gr jhp bullets that I'd like to shoot up. I'd rather not mess up my pistol in the process.

What velocity do you recommend for 125 gr bullets to prolong the life of a Ruger revolver?

 

[Drail]

I was shooting 125 gr. Speer and Remington JHP bullets over a charge of Blue Dot powder that I won't give on the internet but it came straight out of the Speer No. 11 manual. They quickly removed that load from the newer manuals. Over a period of less than two months I probably ran 250 - 300 rounds. The load produced a huge flame from the muzzle and generally freaked everyone out on the firing line. I didn't notice the damage right away but after several detailed cleaning sessions it was obvious what had happened. The lesson I learned was that there is no good reason to push bullets that light at those speeds. The only bullets I will load for .357 anymore are those over 140 gr. and I don't try for max velocity these days. Around 1200 fps. is really more than is necessary for any use I can think of. I really don't see any reason to push speeds much over 1000 fps. After reading the Kuhnhausen manual it was clear to me that revolvers (or at least the forcing cones) DO have practical limits regardless of what the "common wisdom" is. I have other S&W and Ruger revolvers that have digested huge amounts of .357 handloads over a 20 year period with heavier bullets (and even with Blue Dot powder) and their forcing cones have no erosion damage. I'm sure that a whole bunch of guys won't agree with me on this subject but I have seen the evidence first hand. I was young and dumb and like most I learned the hard way. Just stick with the middle of the road loads and don't trash your gun with the "MAX" loads from any manual.

 

[JRWhit]

Well that would offer an explanation of why Blue dot behind 125gns is now a no no.
I keep a number of 125gn a top H110. They make for a neat show, but I'd kinda have to agree that I favor the 140gn xtps and 158gn Noslers.

 

[Salmoneye]

The explanation for Blue Dot and 125gr pills in .357 is not the only issue:


Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).


http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/safety_notices.aspx

 

[ColtPythonElite]

That 125/Blue Dot warning makes no sense considering you can load 110 & 140....With that said, I shot thousands of 125gr Blue Dot loads before that warning with no issues.

 

[5-SHOTS]

I've shot a box of 50 Fiocchi 110gr. FMJ-TC Black Mamba in the Ruger SP101 DAO I owned and that was enought to show some signs of erosion in the forcing cone.
My advice is to limit the use of light bullets at hi speeds (followed by hot and hi speed gas).

 

[Drail]

I think the Blue Dot warning had to do with pressure problems and was not issued due to any concerns of forcing cone erosion. Blue Dot (like some other powders) can also cause problems with pressure swings under different temperature extremes. I have shot many pounds of Blue Dot with medium weight bullets over the years and had no problems but I have read of many cases and warnings where pressures went up when firing Blue Dot loads in very cold temperatures. Unburned particles of Blue Dot accelerated to very high speeds (light bullets) also appears to be very abrasive to steel. All that said I don't use Blue Dot any more. For max Magnum loads I haven't found anything that works better than 2400. H110/W296 are very good powders for max loads but should never be reduced from max or the pressure can spike dramatically. 2400 works over a fairly wide variety charge weights.

 

[Salmoneye]

H110/W296 are very good powders for max loads but should never be reduced from max or the pressure can spike dramatically.

Till Hodgdon revamped it's data pages, this 'dire warning' was front and center:

"Reduce H110 and Winchester 296 loads 3% and work up from there. H110 and Winchester 296 if reduced too much will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death to users or bystanders. DO NOT REDUCE H110 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%. "

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Power Pistol was my replacement choice for Blue Dot with 125gr.