jeff-10
Member
I know that the 357 is notorious for losing velocity in the short barrels but which factory self defense load makes best use of the 2 1/2 barrel?
357 Magum loads for 2 1/2 inches
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Preacherman
Member
If you want the highest velocity, go for the 110gr. or 125gr. loads. I simplified my life some time back, going to the 145gr. Winchester Silvertip for all defensive .357 use, irrespective of barrel length.
carebear
Member
Preacher,
What was your reasoning?
I'm getting recommendations lately to go to the heavier (148gr.) weight in 9mm, I assume there'd be a conceptual parallel in going heavier in the .357 as well?
What was your reasoning?
I'm getting recommendations lately to go to the heavier (148gr.) weight in 9mm, I assume there'd be a conceptual parallel in going heavier in the .357 as well?
DHart
Member
The 2.5" .357 revolver gives up very little in power. Remember, highest velocity really isn't important, in fact it can be a real problem! The *right* velocity for the bulletyou are using is what counts, not the fastest velocity.
Typically, you can expect a 35-50 fps change in velocity for each 1" of barrel change. Most .357 rounds are factory chronyed from 4" barrels.
I have chronyed the Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip (my defense load of choice) from 4", 3", and 2.5" barrels. This load is factory rated at 1290 from a 4" vented barrel. I have clocked it at 1307 from a 3" GP-100 barrel and 1241 from a 2.5" Model 19.
Trust me on this: the 145 gr. Silvertip moving at 1241 fps from a 2.5" .357 barrel is an extremely competent round in terms of modifying the behavior of an attacker. Being a little heavier than the 125 gr. bullet, it will tend to penetrate arms, coats, lots of FAT and muscle, etc. a little better... getting down deep to the vitals.
In winter time, this can be a real plus in cold climates. In fact, I prefer the 158 gr. Gold Dot in cold weather, because this round can be relied upon to provide even better penetration. If you get some 225 lb. ******* wearing a heavy leather coat, several layers of winter clothing, layers of fat gut, and muscle beneath that... you don't want to be shooting fast, lightweight hollowpoint ammo... those are more likely to flatten out too quickly on the heavy coat and clothing and not penetrate deeply enough to get through it all and reach the deep vitals.
Penetration MUST happen, beyond that, expansion is a nice frosting on the cake, if you can get it without giving up deep penetration. You never know when one of your bullets might have to penetrate an arm or two, leather, heavy clothes, layers of fat and muscle! I'm just not at all comfortable relying on lightweight hollow point bullets at high speed. Give me heavy bullets at moderate speeds for deep penetration.
It's a known fact that in general, heavier, slower bullets penetrate deeper (and can more readily push through arms, bone, layers of heavy clothing, fat, and muscle) than light, fast hollowpoints, which have a greater likelihood of overexpanding and underpenetrating, especially when pushed very fast! In addition, the fast, light bullet loads cause more flame cutting and forcing cone erosion on your dear gun. Therefore I limit my .357 shooting to target loads and, for defense, to 145 gr. Silvertips and 158 gr. Gold Dots.
Have no fear that your 2.5" .357 won't generate enough power... this great caliber is powerful enough to be VERY effective, even in snub-nose .357's.
As far treating your revolver well is concerned, note that .357 caliber 110 gr. and 125 gr. loads cause more flame cutting and forcing cone erosion than .357 loads with heavier bullets. All the more reason for choosing the heavier bullet weights in the .357 caliber.
Typically, you can expect a 35-50 fps change in velocity for each 1" of barrel change. Most .357 rounds are factory chronyed from 4" barrels.
I have chronyed the Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip (my defense load of choice) from 4", 3", and 2.5" barrels. This load is factory rated at 1290 from a 4" vented barrel. I have clocked it at 1307 from a 3" GP-100 barrel and 1241 from a 2.5" Model 19.
Trust me on this: the 145 gr. Silvertip moving at 1241 fps from a 2.5" .357 barrel is an extremely competent round in terms of modifying the behavior of an attacker. Being a little heavier than the 125 gr. bullet, it will tend to penetrate arms, coats, lots of FAT and muscle, etc. a little better... getting down deep to the vitals.
In winter time, this can be a real plus in cold climates. In fact, I prefer the 158 gr. Gold Dot in cold weather, because this round can be relied upon to provide even better penetration. If you get some 225 lb. ******* wearing a heavy leather coat, several layers of winter clothing, layers of fat gut, and muscle beneath that... you don't want to be shooting fast, lightweight hollowpoint ammo... those are more likely to flatten out too quickly on the heavy coat and clothing and not penetrate deeply enough to get through it all and reach the deep vitals.
Penetration MUST happen, beyond that, expansion is a nice frosting on the cake, if you can get it without giving up deep penetration. You never know when one of your bullets might have to penetrate an arm or two, leather, heavy clothes, layers of fat and muscle! I'm just not at all comfortable relying on lightweight hollow point bullets at high speed. Give me heavy bullets at moderate speeds for deep penetration.
It's a known fact that in general, heavier, slower bullets penetrate deeper (and can more readily push through arms, bone, layers of heavy clothing, fat, and muscle) than light, fast hollowpoints, which have a greater likelihood of overexpanding and underpenetrating, especially when pushed very fast! In addition, the fast, light bullet loads cause more flame cutting and forcing cone erosion on your dear gun. Therefore I limit my .357 shooting to target loads and, for defense, to 145 gr. Silvertips and 158 gr. Gold Dots.
Have no fear that your 2.5" .357 won't generate enough power... this great caliber is powerful enough to be VERY effective, even in snub-nose .357's.
As far treating your revolver well is concerned, note that .357 caliber 110 gr. and 125 gr. loads cause more flame cutting and forcing cone erosion than .357 loads with heavier bullets. All the more reason for choosing the heavier bullet weights in the .357 caliber.
Bulldozer
Member
I use either 145-grain Silvertip JHP or PMC-El Dorado 150-grain Starfire JHP. The Starfires tend to group better than the Silvertip with my 3" M-66/2.
In the snowy North, I put a premium on penetration.
In the snowy North, I put a premium on penetration.
Oddball Response (Mine)
I use the Winchester 180gr Nos Partition in my snubby, as my snubby has fixed sights and this load shoots closest to POA.
Also, it is more pleasant to shoot than 125 & 158gr magnums.
YMMV, but don't discount non-traditional defensive bullet weights.
I use the Winchester 180gr Nos Partition in my snubby, as my snubby has fixed sights and this load shoots closest to POA.
Also, it is more pleasant to shoot than 125 & 158gr magnums.
YMMV, but don't discount non-traditional defensive bullet weights.
I'm going to jump on the Win 145gr. silver-tip bandwagon also. For me, the perceived recoil of the silver-tip is moderate at best. It's a good middle of the road round. The Rem 125gr. Golden sabers don't recoil that much either and they're a medium velocity round. The full velocity "hot" 125gr. magnums and the 158gr magnums are just a little too much for me out of a 2.5" barrel. Plus, my 66 likes the silver-tips best for accuracy and they have a good rep on the street. Here's my carry rig:
Dain Bramage
Member
jfruser, that might not be a bad Black Bear defensive load..even in a snubby.
Gordon
Member
Another misguided 180grain partition gold user, even though they only do about 1100fps in a 2,5inch barrel (or my 2 3/4" Security six, but another 50fps faster in a 3.5 or 4") they still open to .55" and go thru anything.
I like the Silvertips and can double tap them -almost!
The 158grainXTP and Gold dot are good too as are the ferocious Remington 158scalloped Hollowpoint (not goldensabre) and the Federal LE ammo.
The light loads are varmint stuff and hard on the flashgap ect!
I like the Silvertips and can double tap them -almost!
The 158grainXTP and Gold dot are good too as are the ferocious Remington 158scalloped Hollowpoint (not goldensabre) and the Federal LE ammo.
The light loads are varmint stuff and hard on the flashgap ect!
The only part of the equation you have is bullet placement. The terminal ballistics of the bullet are what do the killing. In short, I agree 100% with DHart, you need penetration.
I carry 158-gr Hydra-Shoks in my snub .357 because I can reasonably expect it to expand, and whether or not it does, it will penetrate to get the job done. If I have to choose one or another, I'll pick penetration over expansion.
I also don't think the guys that carry 180s are out of line.
I carry 158-gr Hydra-Shoks in my snub .357 because I can reasonably expect it to expand, and whether or not it does, it will penetrate to get the job done. If I have to choose one or another, I'll pick penetration over expansion.
I also don't think the guys that carry 180s are out of line.
Kamicosmos
Member
I started carrying S&B 158 grain SPs in my SP101. I chrono'ed them at about 1100fps. That should do it. They also kick much less than the 125 grain Federal Premium Defense load I was carrying.
Unisaw
Member
Here's a new load from Speer that might be worth checking out:
2005 New Products
Gold Dot® SB Ammunition Line for Short-Barrel Handguns
The proliferation of short-barrel, compact firearms for concealed carry has placed new demands on today’s ammunition. Bullets must expand at lower velocities yet have adequate penetration. With new firearms built of high-tech lightweight materials like scandium and titanium, conventional Magnum ammunition produces unpleasant levels of recoil.
To meet this new challenge, Speer introduces Gold Dot SB, a special class of cartridges that is perfect for compact firearms. We started in 2004 with the superb 38 Special +P 135-grain HP load that has been hailed as the best load for 38 “snubbies.†We do this with special bullet designs that allow proper expansion at reduced velocities without sacrificing tactical penetration. Cartridges like the 357 and 44 Magnum feature reduced recoil allowing better control.
Like all Gold Dot ammo, the new Gold Dot SB features bullets with true, bonded-core construction for high retained weights and excellent penetration. We increase the surface area of the cavity, and mate velocity to the job at hand.
FEATURES & BENEFITS
• True bonded-core bullets
— High retained weights to increase penetration when fired from short barrels
• Patented* two-stage cavity formation with enhanced surface area
— Allows excellent design control to ensure proper performance in short-barrel firearms
• Reduced recoil in Magnum cartridges
— Permits much better control during rapid fire
• Nickel-plated cartridge cases
— Resists environmental effects and aids in extraction
• World-famous CCI® primers
— Non-corrosive and non-mercuric
— Reliable ignition under “real-world†conditions
PART NO. DESCRIPTION
23917 Gold Dot SB 357 Magnum 135 gr GDHP - 20 per box; 500 per case
2005 New Products
Gold Dot® SB Ammunition Line for Short-Barrel Handguns
The proliferation of short-barrel, compact firearms for concealed carry has placed new demands on today’s ammunition. Bullets must expand at lower velocities yet have adequate penetration. With new firearms built of high-tech lightweight materials like scandium and titanium, conventional Magnum ammunition produces unpleasant levels of recoil.
To meet this new challenge, Speer introduces Gold Dot SB, a special class of cartridges that is perfect for compact firearms. We started in 2004 with the superb 38 Special +P 135-grain HP load that has been hailed as the best load for 38 “snubbies.†We do this with special bullet designs that allow proper expansion at reduced velocities without sacrificing tactical penetration. Cartridges like the 357 and 44 Magnum feature reduced recoil allowing better control.
Like all Gold Dot ammo, the new Gold Dot SB features bullets with true, bonded-core construction for high retained weights and excellent penetration. We increase the surface area of the cavity, and mate velocity to the job at hand.
FEATURES & BENEFITS
• True bonded-core bullets
— High retained weights to increase penetration when fired from short barrels
• Patented* two-stage cavity formation with enhanced surface area
— Allows excellent design control to ensure proper performance in short-barrel firearms
• Reduced recoil in Magnum cartridges
— Permits much better control during rapid fire
• Nickel-plated cartridge cases
— Resists environmental effects and aids in extraction
• World-famous CCI® primers
— Non-corrosive and non-mercuric
— Reliable ignition under “real-world†conditions
PART NO. DESCRIPTION
23917 Gold Dot SB 357 Magnum 135 gr GDHP - 20 per box; 500 per case
BluesBear
member
I haven't fired a J-frame sized revolver in about five years now.
But this past Friday I managed to keep 15 rounds of Winchester .357 Magnum 145gr Silvertip ammo within the 9 ring of a B27E target, rapid fire, at 25 feet from Lady45's Taurus 651.
The muzzle blast from that combination drew a small crowd extremely fast.
But this past Friday I managed to keep 15 rounds of Winchester .357 Magnum 145gr Silvertip ammo within the 9 ring of a B27E target, rapid fire, at 25 feet from Lady45's Taurus 651.
The muzzle blast from that combination drew a small crowd extremely fast.
DHart
Member
Unisaw... as well as the 135 +P Gold Dot has been received, I'm very interested in seeing the .357 "SB" loads.
rgillis... thanks for appreciating the pics... glad you enjoy them.
rgillis... thanks for appreciating the pics... glad you enjoy them.
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