.38 in a .357 question

[Maxtork]

Sorry fo the basic question but I'm still fairly new to all this and trying to learn.

I understand that it is possible to fire a .38 round through a gun designed for 357 as the diameter is the same or at least close enough. Now since the 38 round is shorter that would leave a larger space for the bullet to "jump" before entering the barrel. I say jump as the bullet is smaller in diameter than the casing and therefore smaller than the barrel ID. So once it leaves the casing it will be free floating so to speak before it makes contact with the "forcing cone" I think it is called and travels down the barrel.

My question is wether or not there are any adverse effects from having a 38 round jumping that longe distance on a regular basis? If the bullet has more time between being fired and squirting through the barrel then I would guess it has more oppourtunity to become misaligned and may impact the forcing cone harder and off center than a 357 which is much closer in the first place.

Is there any adverse effects on accuracy having the bullet being fired from a basically 0" barrel (casing only) before going through the rest of the gun?

I'm sure it is probably not worth worrying about but I'm curious none the less. Thanks in advance for helping out the new guy!

Max

 

[1911Tuner]

They're exactly the same diameter. .357 inch.

The .357 Magnum is nothing more than a lengthened .38 Special case that was born from the old .38-44 cartridge...which was just an extremely hot-loaded .38 Special intended to be fired in large-framed .38 Special revolvers.

The trouble started when the ammo found its way into small-framed .38 Special revolvers...so the .357 was born and the case stretched to prevent chambering in the .38 caliber guns.

On to the "free float" question...

Just ahead of the chamber area, you'll notice a step that is slightly smaller than the cartridge case. This is the chamber throat, and it's very close to bullet diameter. The difference in a .38 and .357 cases is small...about 1/8th inch. Before the bullet clears the .38 Special case, it's in the throat area, and being guided into the forcing cone...so there's no worry about the bullet yawing and impacting the forcing cone in any manner other than straight in.

 

[Maxtork]

Thanks..I kinda figued it was tight enough not to matter but it was worth asking just to know more.

Thanks
Max

 

[Steve C]

My question is wether or not there are any adverse effects from having a 38 round jumping that longe distance on a regular basis?

There is no difference in accuracy that can attributed directly to the .135" difference in cartridge length and the resulting added jump to the cylinder throat when firing .38 spl in the .357 mag. In actual side by side target tests a good .357 mag will outperform .38 chambered revolvers of equal quality with some .38 spl loads. Below is a chart scanned from a 1976 Handloader magazine article showing 4 pistols and their relative accuracy using factory loaded .38 spl Wad Cutter ammunition. Note the Colt .357 revolver is as or more accurate than the other 2 revolvers and one semi automatic tested.

 

[Trebor]

You also need to know that if you shoot .38 Special through a .357 Magnum chambered gun you'll need to clean the chambers extra carefully before trying to load or fire .357 Magnum ammo.

When you fire the rounds leave a "crud line" in the chamber that is a build up of lead and other material from the bullet.

That's OK, except that the crud line from a .38 special is closer to the rear of the chamber. All that built up material can keep the longer .357 Magnum cartridges from fitting into the chamber.

It won't happen from shooting one cylinder full of .38's, but it will happen if you make a habit of shooting .38's, and probably quicker then you think.

Just clean the chambers extra carefully after shooting .38's. You can then check my inserting an empty .357 Magnum case into each chamber. When the case goes in with no resistence, you've got it clean enough. The case also helps scrape the crud out of the chamber.

 

[krs]

If the bullet has more time between being fired and squirting through the barrel then I would guess it has more oppourtunity to become misaligned and may impact the forcing cone harder and off center than a 357 which is much closer in the first place.

Assuming a properly working, timed revolver the bullet can't get 'misaligned' as it travels from caase to bore. It ain't got no place to go but straight ahead.

Drive on.

 

[Maxtork]

Thanks Gents,

I have to say out of all the forums I visit for other industries and such this one seems to be the most helpful in nature. It's pretty nice to know you can ask a question without fear of getting slammed for not being a genius!

KRS brings up a good point though on timing. Is that something that you have issues with often or something to be watched closely? I can see how firing a round into the edge of the barrel instead of the center of it would make for a bad day. Sorry again for the basic questions, I'm still learning the round gun stuff.

Thanks
Max

 

[ssjones]

Good questions Max. I was also pondering the same thing. Is there a good site that maybe shows a video of how to correctly clean a revolver? The only handgun I've owned to date has been an automatic, but I'm looking to add a 38 or 357.

 

[AllisonDT]

Good questions Max. I was also pondering the same thing. Is there a good site that maybe shows a video of how to correctly clean a revolver? The only handgun I've owned to date has been an automatic, but I'm looking to add a 38 or 357.

Basic instruction:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOzZp5654u4

 

[ssjones]

Thanks, seems simple enough.

 

[shooter429]

Nothing to worry about

As others said, they are the same diameter. Not only can it be done, but it is one of the ways the .357 Magnum is so versatile. You can mix .38 Spl. and .357 in moderate doses without cleaning, but eventually the longer cases will start sticking, and then it is time to clean. You can use an appropriate bore brush and some lead away to clean the chambers. I would advise against using an abrasive like Remington bore cleaner as the particles will get inside the crane assembly and gum things up.

Keep in mind, too that you can avoid the .38/.357 cleaning issue by simply downloading your .357 loads. I have done so, using a moderate burning powder such as 231, AA5 or 7 and plated full wadcutters. That is probably your best choice, if you don't want to scrub the chambers between .38/.357.

BTW, welcome and feel free to ask questions. The really stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked. there are others who will learn from your thread, too, I am sure.

Shooter429

 

[TheEngineer]

On a related note, can I use .357 brass to roll my own .38 spl loads? Should I just seat the bullet the extra 1/10" or so deep to maintain the OAL specified for the .38 spl load?

 

[ArmedBear]

A couple things...

A box of .38 Special won't necessitate cleaning. .357 will still go into the chambers. However, after several boxes, the .357 won't fit any more until the chambers are cleaned. I found this out when I was going to grab my single action to carry on a hike -- I'd been practicing with .38's for a while without cleaning. Tried to load it with "real" ammo, and I couldn't get the cartridges in.

I guess my point is, if you're going plinking and you have some .38 and some .357 ammo, you don't have to bring a bronze brush and cleaning rod with you. But you should start with a clean gun, and expect to use that bronze brush when you get home.

To TheEngineer, a .38 Special revolver won't fit the extra case length. Some target loads actually have the bullet pressed almost all the way into the case; there's a max OAL for the .38 and the .357 rounds, but case length is what differentiates the cartridges and chambers, not OAL.

I just confirmed that with a little Airweight J-Frame that's rated for .38 Sp +P (after trying the .357 with full house loads, I decided that the extra $300+ for the .357 version was a waste of money, so I bought the .38. ).

The chamber is not just a simple hole. ID of the chamber steps down by a good few thousandths at the front of the specd'd case length.

I also noted that, on both that gun and a .357 I pulled out of the safe for comparison, you cannot load the cartridges into the cylinder from the front. The ID of the chambers is just a few thousandths too small to allow the brass to go in the muzzle end.

Since the bullet is smaller than the case, a chamber that didn't step down in front of the case would result in a hell of a mess, as the unregulated bullet could slam into the forcing cone off-center. In fact, I've read that S&W revolvers before the late 1980s commonly had slightly oversized cylinder outlets, which caused leading and accuracy well below the potential of the revolvers' overall design. This is why I'm not necessarily all that excited about a Smith that doesn't have MIM parts or the dreaded Lock... Some of the older guns have flaws of their own -- flaws I might really notice whenever I shot the thing, not just theoretical weak points.

 

[Brian Williams]

On a related note, can I use .357 brass to roll my own .38 spl loads? Should I just seat the bullet the extra 1/10" or so deep to maintain the OAL specified for the .38 spl load

Not really, but you might look at upping the load about 3% to 10% to account for the larger case. You should always check your load against a good reloading manual.