38 special OAL question

[dryfork]

Brand new to reloading. I was reloading 38 special with Remmington 125g SJHP bullets. Seated the bullet to the cannelure and all looked good. I had a box of factory Remmington UMC 38 Special +P 125g SJHP so I naturally compared the two - to my surprise, the factory cartridge was much longer, with an OAL of 1.542. The cartridge I produced had an OAL of 1.454. The factory cartridge was also crimped at the cannelure. I was expecting the the two cartridges to the same length since both used the same weight bullet and both bullets were from Remmington. Is this common? Note: both cases were/are the same length. Thanks.

 

[rcmodel]

I'd pull one of the factory load bullets and compare them with your bullets side by side for length & cannulure location.
Also weigh them.

You might be surprised what you find.

Apparently they are not identical bullets or the OAL would be very close to the same.

rc

 

[dryfork]

Thanks for the feedback rc. Pulled the bullet from the factory cartridge and the cannelure is located lower on that bullet than the bullet bought seperately. Don't have the equipment to weigh the bullets, but they look the same other than cannelure location. I have some 125g hornady XTP bullets that I reloaded with and they end up the same length as Hornady factory cartridges of the same bullet weight. Must be a Remmington thing.

 

[rcmodel]

Don't have the equipment to weigh the bullets

How did you weigh the powder?

rc

 

[dryfork]

Lee safety scale, which only goes up to 110g.

 

[GLShooter]

Dippers, I bet.

Greg

 

[Jim Watson]

Remington makes - or made, I don't know that they still do - two versions of those JHPs in factory loads. One was for .38 Special and one for .357 Magnum. The original .357 (Model 27) has a relatively short cylinder and does not accept much more OAL than a Special so they seat the bullets deeper.
Bullets sold for reloading may be used in either so they cannelure them for Magnums.

 

[dryfork]

Thanks JW. I hadn't considered the dual use of the bullets in 38 and 357 mag. I measured the distance from the bottom of the cannelure to the tip of of the (just pulled) factory bullet, then added that to the case length of an empty 357 shell I had and came up with 1.677. I then dropped that same empty 357 case into my 357 S&W 686 and measured from the back of the case to the front of the cylinder and got 1.682. 0.005 is not much difference. if there are also 357 models out with slightly shorter cylinders, then reloaded cartridges could very well extend past the cylinder with the bullet that was in my factory 38 spl cartridge.

 

[gamestalker]

The OP said he is using a Lee Safety scale, I hope so. Maybe I missed something though about the COAL though. I look at the suggested COAL in the books and then seat them accordingly.

 

[Steve C]

Revolver cartridge OAL is somewhat dependent on the length of the cylinder. S&W's usually have longer cylinders than a Colt for instance. The only important setting is that the cartridge must chamber in the revolvers you intend to shoot them from and the bullet must not extend past the face of the cylinder. You test this by dropping a loaded round into the cylinder and looking to see if the nose of the bullet is below the face of the cylinder, if it isn't then decrease your OAL if it is you are good to go. You don't need a caliper, you don't have to measure it any other way.

 

[Jim Watson]

I arrive at an OAL for a revolver by crimping in the crimp groove or cannelure.
If it is too long for the cylinder - I don't know of anything with that problem except a true Keith 358429 in the Model 27 or 28 - I use a different bullet.
If it doesn't have a crimp groove, I shoot it in an automatic or don't buy it.

 

[LiveLife]

Don't have the equipment to weigh the bullets

In another thread, it was suggested that you cut the bullet in half and weigh the pieces separately.

 

[Hondo 60]

If it's seated in the cannelure, I wouldn't worry about OAL.
You might have to adjust the powder charge,
but as long as you start low & work up, you'll be fine.

 

[gamestalker]

If all your brass is trimmed to the same lengths, and your seating at the same place on the canelure being relative to your consistent COLs. The COL will be different than the factory rounds, if the factory has different case length, and they probably do. I discovered a long time ago, that factory brass has a relatively large spread in case lengths, usually our trimmed brass is much mroe consistent than factory brass used. Visually inspect the factory rounds, and you'll notice that the their crimps are located in varying locations in the canelure from one round to the next. Consistent COL is usually good with factory, but because your case length is different than what they are using, it will effect COL to the extent, that producing the same COL as factory, may require having to crimp high, low, or even off of the canelure.
But in retrospect, I don't find it necessay to measure my revolver loads so long as they fit OK. The only real exception to this is making sure you keep your brass all trimmed to the same SAMMI length, other wise you could wind up with rounds not fitting the chamber, or pressures spiking if for some reaosn the brass is shorter than SAMMI spec.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I look at the suggested COAL in the books and then seat them accordingly.

As said above, just seat the bullet to the cannelure or crimp groove and apply the crimp. The bullet manufacturer intends the bullet to be crimped there no matter what the load manual tells you. Are you crimping revolver bullets out of the crimp groove??