38 Special-Power Pistol?

[idahoglock36]

Does anyone use Power Pistol in the 38? I usually use WST but have a pound of PP that I playing around with.

I'll be using a 158 LSWC. Alliant's site has load info for this and the velocity seems really fast at max.

If you have used PP with a 158 LSWC please let me know what your results are.

Thanks

 

[Sevens]

I really like Power Pistol in 10mm for a number of reasons, so using it in other calibers that it MAY not be the best choice in was something I was willing to try for the simple economy of it... since I'm buying it in 4-pound jugs. I figure that Power Pistol is not at it's best in a lower pressure round like .38 Special... it'll use heavier charge weights and likely won't burn all of it when you shoot it.

Heck, just in proofreading that, it sounds silly... but if you believe what QuickLoad comes up with, then yeah, I don't think it's going to burn all of the powder charge efficiently like Bullseye or Titegroup will. So it's just not going to be the best choice you can make for .38 Special. But does it work?

I like it in .38 Special -- I made loads using a Dardas 158gr cast LSWC with the bullet loaded to the crimp groove. I built them using 4.9gr, 5.2gr and 5.5gr of powder and didn't notice a heap of difference amongst them. So I settled on 5.2gr, and I've been using that now for quite a while out of a Model 10-7 with good results.

I have no chrono, so I don't know where these shake out. And though I very much like Alliant powder, their "reloading data" on their website is total crap. So I don't know what kind of pressure I'm seeing, either.

 

[jfh]

I tested PP in 38 Spl with 158LSWCs

a couple of years ago. Power Pistol is one of the 'velocity champs' in 38 Special for me.

I set it aside after testing it with the GDSB 135-gr JHP, two different 140LTCs, and 158LSWCs--but for a reason that really is irrelevant here: I was seeking a reload that would replicate the recoil of the Speer 38+P 135-gr. factory PD Ammo, and then later I tested it to see how it compared to a typical "FBI load" ammo. (For the Speer 135-gr. recipes, the recoil was noticeably 'harder' and 'fuller'; AA#5 and Ramshot's True Blue are the best matches.)

Alliant currently shows a 38+P max charge weight of 6.0 gr. under a Speer 158LSWC-HP; my 6.0-gr. test under a locally-branded 158LSWC showed 839 fps, 14 SD from a 2&1/8" barrel (S&W 640). Run out of a 3" barrel (S&W M60), it ran 891 fps, 12 SD. Unfortunately, I haven't run it yet from a 4" barrel; but, it looks to me like one could add on about 50 fps to the 3" results--so, perhaps 950 fps on a good day. If the recipe were bumped slightly to reach 38-CIP pressure max, 950 is easily obtainable. IMO. That puts it just beyond using swaged bullets (e.g., Speer 158LSWC-HP) without significant leading, I think, but should be just fine with BHN 11-14 or so bullets.

These chrono tests were ten shots--i.e., statistically significant--and were shot on an overcast day with the temp in the mid-seventies. The typical factory ammo (Rem new, or Georgia Arms reloads) for the "FBI load" at current max pressures does well to break 800 or a few fps over.

FWIW, idahoglock36, 5.2 gr. produced 741 fps from the 2" 640 and 781 fps from the 3" M60.

Unfortunately, I transcribed no other comments from the range notes into the database so I have no comments on burn, etc--only that I remember it as "flashy," and that full-hard recoil. IMO, it's worth trying and working with in 38 Special. I may run some more tests with it this summer.

Jim H.

 

[idahoglock36]

Hey Thanks!

This is exactly the info I needed. I appreciate the real world results. I am just experimenting with PP to see what it can do in the .38, your results will help me with what I need. I don't need the load for a regular shooter, just something to experiment with. Normally, I don't like the flashy flame of PP but sometimes it is fun to shoot as the sun goes down with friends . Plus the fun of reloading is trying something different!

Have a great weekend (or what is left of it).

 

[ArchAngelCD]

While PP will deliver superior velocity in a .38 Special it also delivers a huge flash. PP isn't for target .38 Special rounds because it's too slow a powder for that usage. I do use AA#5 for medium hot .38 Special ammo and it's a little friendlier on your eyes too. For target .38 Special ammo I use W231/HP-38 mostly. For .38 Special +P ammo you have a lot of choices including Power Pistol along with AA#5, HS-6 and Longshot. (among others)

 

[nojoke]

How about 110g bullets with power pistol? Safe?
Anyone with a recipe?

These bullets: http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/13...-357-diameter-110-grain-jacketed-hollow-point

 

[rcmodel]

I bet Alliant does!
And every reloading manual published in the last 20+ years does too.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=110&shellid=27&bulletid=31

BTW: Alliant data is all MAX loads.
Reduce 10% for your starting load.

rc

 

[Galil5.56]

PP and 158 grain LSWCs in .38 Special... Fantastic! This is taken from a post a few years back on THR:

Next load is an FBI-ish 158 LSWC/LSWCHP .38 Special +P load. Revolver used was a full lug S&W 3" model 60 and the primers were Winchester.

Speer 158 grain LSWCHP/Hornady 158 grain LSWC
6 grains Power Pistol = 924 fps avg

Comments: Very accurate, healthy blast/shockwave, very consistent with no signs of pressure and easy extraction. IMO, 158 grains of lead moving along at a measured 930 fps from a 3" barrel is pretty healthy, especially since it was accurate and had absolutely no signs of high pressure.

Alliant has really gotten on the ball in the last few manuals, with regard to published velocities being very close to my own chronographed velocities per given barrel length in my experience. Even when I loaded to the then current max data from Hodgdon (circa 1994), the max charge of HS-6 (7.3 grains) would push these same Speer swaged 158's to an avg velocity of 866 fps from the same gun. I loaded up some solid 148 grain W/C's with PP to a velocity of 904 fps avg, and accuracy was just fine, with a very good smack on impact.

 

[joed]

I'm a big fan of PP, use it in .38 Spl, .44 Spl, .45 acp and 9mm. Very clean burning and gives excellent velocity. I like it so much I no longer buy Unique. I've heard it does create a lot of flash but all my shooting has been during the day so I can't comment on that.

 

[336A]

I'm sure PP is a avery good powder in the .38 SPL. But Unique and the .38 SPL go together like mom & apple pie. Here is some good reading on some extensive .38 SPL chronograph work, sorry there is no PP loads but it does make a great case for Unique http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/144598-some-38-special-chronograph-tests.html

 

[nojoke]

rcmodel, thank you.

Now, they specifically list a primer that I do not have. I have a winchester primer (standard). Any issues there?

And just to confirm, start w/ 6.6 grains? This will be my very first reload ever.

Since that is a +P load, are special cases required?

How much should I make? I cannot go out and test in the back yard. I need to take trips out to the range (30 minutes away).

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Now, they specifically list a primer that I do not have. I have a winchester primer (standard). Any issues there?

Primer brands in handgun ammo aren't as critical as when loading shotshells or even rifle ammo. As long as they are the correct size and strength you should be 100% fine. Of course you should always work up your loads when changing components but in this case you are just starting out so make sure you work the load up and not start at the Max charge.

(another old thread brought back from the dead)