.38 Special questions

[ceestand]

What round would you recommend for someone wanting to carry a .38 loaded with any non- +P ammo? Obviously there will be some penetration/expansion sacrifices, but what do you feel would produce the best results in a street encounter.

Does anyone have good or bad things to say about Magtech ammo?

Is there any reason why, given selection from the same lot of choices, that a .38 Special round that produced the best results out of the group from a 4" barrel would not produce the best results from a 2" barrel from the same choices?

 

[James Bondrock]

Is there any reason why, given selection from the same lot of choices, that a .38 Special round that produced the best results out of the group from a 4" barrel would not produce the best results from a 2" barrel from the same choices?

Because of the velocity loss from the short barrel, the same weight bullet fired from a 2" will be less effective than from the 4" barrel because it is traveling slower and will not hit as hard. Lighter weight bullets are often recommended for the short barrels for two reasons. One, there is proportionately less of this velocity loss (albeit not that much), and two, the lighter bullets have less felt recoil. Four-inch bbl. revolvers are typically medium-frame (e.g., the K-frame S&W Military and Police series), which gives added weight and something to hold onto, while two-inchers are usually small-frame (e.g., J-frame S&W Chiefs Special series), which are lighter and have small grips. The little snubbies can kick pretty hard and twist in your hand sometimes, so anything that will reduce this tendency is welcomed.

 

[Al Thompson]

There is literally hours of reading information here. Jim March is always worth istening to - his favorite is the 158 LSWCHP +P.

While you do not have to practice with +P's, it's best to carry them. The drawback is that they will wear out your revolver "Faster", but not by much. If you simply fire 12 rounds to check POI/PO and practice with non +P, the wear would be essentally "zero". That's what most of us do with our airweight J frames.

 

[ceestand]

Al, I know that is the prevailing logic around here. I also respect the fact that I'm a relative noob and I may catch some flak for my theory stated forthwith.

I belive that it's best to practice with what you carry and vice versa. The street is not the place to realize that your shot may not strike where you think it will, or that it will take you an extra .17 of a second to bring the gun ready for a second shot. Since it's considered by all best to train with non +P rounds, and that I feel more comfortable with them, that's what I want to stick with when I'm carrying.

My plan was to buy several types of rounds, see which I have the best results with accuracy-wise, and use that round from then on. I'd like to discount any rounds generally useless for SD (LRN comes to mind) before I get into the accuracy testing. Price is also a concern, as it would be prohibitive to practice with Magsafe, for example, with a price > $10./6

I really appreciate any advice given to me, but I believe my theory is sound, given that shot placement seems way more relevant than round type.

 

[Checkman]

ceestand-

Well I like the Federal Hydrashok 38 special 110 grain. That's the non- +p load. I also have a box of Winchester 110 grain Siilvertips, but I have found the Federals are more accurate. I carry a S&W Model 49 Bodyguard (mfd 1980) and have a Colt Detective Special at home. The Silvertips are in the Colt. Never have tried the Magsafe rounds.

 

[bountyhunter]

I also have the federal 110-gr hydra-shoks (not +p) in my model 10 nightstand gun, but after reading some specs I wonder if that's mean enough. I think the muzzle energy is something like 200 ft-lbs or so on that one.

I saw some nosler 135-gr HP's in .40SW that deliver 475 ft-lbs, which is more than about 99% of the hottest .45 defense loads can do (most of them are in the 425 range). I know muzzle energy isn't everything, but the .38 does start to look a little wimpy compared to some of the monsters out there these days in .40 and .45.

 

[bountyhunter]

Because of the velocity loss from the short barrel, the same weight bullet fired from a 2" will be less effective than from the 4" barrel because it is traveling slower and will not hit as hard.

So true, but many people don't realize just HOW MUCH LESS effective a round can be fired from a shorter barrel. Hollow point rounds can only deliver their energy if they expand in the target, which slows them down converting their vecoty into hydrostatic shock and heat which does tremendous damage to the target. If they don't get up enough velocity, they won't expand properly.

We had a shooting here when somebody tried to rob the local range and the guy who worked there put two rounds of .45 into a guy at a range of about ten feet... and the guy ran off. He was hit straight through the lung and still ran away. They caught him and he lived. The cops recovered the bullets and neither had expanded because they were fired from a "shorty" barrel and just didn't go fast enough. So much for the thunderous stopping power of the .45 defense loads.

 

[tbeb]

My first choice for a standard pressure load would be the Federal Nyclad 125 gr. lead hollowpoint. Cost, including shipping, at ammoman.com is $119.00 for 250 rounds. If forced to make a second choice I would reload my own--probably a 148 gr. hollow base wadcutter seated backwards. (If I wasn't a reloader or if I only wanted to use factory ammo, then my second choice would be a 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter.)

Having said that, I practice with standard pressure 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutters, and use the +P Federal 158 gr. lead hollowpoint for self defense.

 

[Checkman]

You're right about the short barrel not giving the round a whole lot of velocity, but sometimes you have to trade off one thing for something else. I had an old cop tell me that the whole idea of a 2 inch 38 was a gun that could be carried easily and, when needed, emptied rapidly into the bad guys torso within about seven feet.

It may not kill him, but it might give you a chance to get away. I believe it was Jeff Cooper who said that any sensible person will always bring a rifle to a gunfight. I'm paraphrasing. Anyway sometimes a snubnose 38 is all you might have at hand. Beats a rock - most of the time.

 

[farscott]

I like the Federal Nyclad 125-grain hollowpoint, and it is my practice and carry ammo in my M342PD. I try to shoot a box of it a month. I am also using it in an old M&P with a two-inch barrel. [eta] Oops, I use the 158-grain Nyclad in the M&P. I must be getting stupid; the 125-grain load does not shoot POA/POI in the M&P.

The only issue is that Federal has taken the Nyclad line out of general circulation due to a lack of demand. I understand it is still in the LEO catalog, which explains how my dealer is able to still carry it. The price has gone up a bit as well.

 

[Old Fuff]

ceestand:

Most snub-nose revolvers have fixed sights. Because the shorter barrel usually reduces the performance of any load it is critical that the point-of-impact match point-of-aim at probable gunfighting distances.

Many, if not most snubbies have sights that were regulated for 158 grain bullets. In selecting a particular load be sure it hits where it's supposed too, or that the sights can be modified to get the desired results.

A little experimenting at the range will determine the right load/bullet weight. Then you can get more specific about which company's product too use.

 

[Brian Williams]

I kinda like Win white box 125 gr+p Self defence load, scary accurate in my S&W 60-4.