.38 special roundnose for defense

[Timthinker]

In the 1970s, gun guru Jeff Cooper wrote a book on handguns which evaluated different cartridges. Not surprisingly, he spent quite a bit of space on the .38 Special since that was a popular police round at the time. Cooper recommended a semi-wadcutter design also. While a "hot" loaded semi-wadcutter design improves the performance of this cartridge, shot place is still the paramount feature.

This is a good thread since we get to hear from some of our mature members who were active in firearms at that time. It is nice to know how things have changed. Thanks for the good stories.


Timthinker

 

[smokemaker]

I bought a box of Winchester 110 grain +p+ a few years ago. 1430 fps from a 6" Dan Wesson 709. That's pretty hot in my book! I've only got a single speedloader full of those loads left. I figure the DW is a stout peice, and can handle those loads OK. The Chicago PD, or metro load, shoots well from the same gun for about 2 cylinders full, and then accuracy goes down the tubes. Then it's time for the Lewis lead remover. Nowadays I use the Federal 129 grain +p+ hydrashocks. They shoot great and don't lead the gun up.

 

[gringolet]

plan?

if thinking defensively..probably wise to think
a worst case scenario...BIG..drugged up...determined..
and armed...
now, what you want to shoot the guy with?
I carry a 32 often...but I load it with the best I can find...
same with my 9mm and 38 and 45...
if we all wanted the best it would be a 357 mag 4 inch
shooting 125 JHP...the 357 sig is catching up..the 45acp is close in a
right gun...and the 40S&W is not that far behind..but
best is the 357 in a 4 inch...BUT..too big for my pocket...
if you want your 38 to do it's best...no, not round nose...
but, if you want to know if round nose will work..yes it will...
in my law enforcemernt carrer I have seen 2 men dropped in about 2 seconds
with lead round nose from a SNUBBY 38...one was dead when he hit the floor
and the other died 3 days later in a hospital....would it work on another 2 guys?...maybe...maybe not. I'd suggest load the best and hope for the best outcome. instead of load the least and hope for the best.

 

[Wheeler]

I still have most of a box of 158gr. Nyclads. And to think I shot them like reloads, I had well over 1500 rounds at one time.

Now let me throw a kink in the equation, will a Model 12 S&W handle +P loads?

Wheeler

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

One of the ammo dealers at the Wanenmacher Arms Show in Tulsa last weekend had eight or ten boxes of Federal NyClad ammo. I didn't know they weren't making it anymore!

ECS

 

[S&Wfan]

FWIW,

Those old S&W Model 10s, as well as the J-frame snubbies generally had their sights regulated to shoot to Point Of Aim (POA) with 158 grain bullets.

With handgun bullets, choosing the right bullet weight DOES affect whether the gun shoots high or low. The LIGHTER the bullet, generally the LOWER it hits on the target, and visa versa.

WHICH BULLET WEIGHT?

Well . . . the one that shoots to the bullseye point of aim, of course, at your chosen practice distance! Bullet PLACEMENT is everything!!!!!


BEST LOAD . . .

You'll probably find that this will end up being a 158 grain load that shoots the centers out of a target at ten yards away.

You can't really beat the good old FBI load (158 grain LSWC-HP +P). Remington still makes it and that's what works best in my Model 36 snubbie too.

The other wonderful round in my wheelgun is the 148 grain target load. Yeah, it SHOULD shoot a little lower, BUT the slower velocity means it exits the barrel slightly later, as the barrel begins its rise . . . so both rounds impact just about the same point at ten yards.

Here's a perfect "Point Of Impact" at a target that's only an inch black square . . . shot standing and unsupported at a DISTANCE of TEN YARDS. This is the POA criteria I mentioned is so important . . . much more important than which hollow point load one is carrying.

Your POA results may vary but I'll bet the results will be similar.

+P loads in 158 grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollowpoints will NOT wear out your Model 10 wheelgun for self defense purposes. For practice? Use the light kicking 148 grain Wadcutters.

Heck, for self defense purposes, those obscenely light-kicking 148gn. Wadcutter bullets cut a wicked and large hole as they tear through muscle, bone AND blood vessels. It is actually a pretty decent SD round on its own merit!!!

Ditto on shooting up your roundnose bullets and going for hollowpoints. Although I wouldn't want to be shot by one, I wouldn't want to stake my life on their effectiveness either!

Hope this helps,

T.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Round nosed 158 grn .38 SPECIALS absolutely WILL bounce off of appliance sheetmetal! Many years ago I did a non-scientific comparison between a Taurus revolver (I forget the model #)with a 4'' barrel loaded with Remington .158grn lead round nose and a Universal .30 cal. carbine with Remington 110 grn hollow points. While the carbine round easily passed through both sides of an old washing machine the .38 specials never penetrated,not even once. Every one balled up and fell to the ground! This was at about 15-20 feet.

 

[papajohn]

Round nose 38's have a crummy reputation for a lot of reasons.......they overpenetrate, don't do much damage to tissue, make a tiny permanent wound channel, yada yada yada. Wadcutters, especially the dead-soft lead type, are not much better. They might tear through blood vessels, but dense muscle and bone? Kinda doubt it. A buddy of mine interrupted an armed robbery years ago, the bad guy in the passenger seat opened up on him, then his pistol jammed. My buddy had just resigned from his PD, and was carrying wadcutters instead of JHP duty ammo. He fired six shots DA from his Colt.....and all six flattened out on the windshield right in front of the bad guy before careening off in all directions. A SEMI-wadcutter cast hard will penetrate lots of stuff, and will still cut a full-caliber hole.

As for Point of Aim, my duty gun (M-64 4-inch) is dead on with 158-grain loads at about 850 fps, but it also shoots the Speer 135-grain Short Barrel load to the same spot. So I practice with one, carry the other, and don't have to worry about varying POI.

PJ

 

[Omaney]

My mother-in-law had LRN in her nightstand revolver. I like my mother-in-law so I spent $25 on some decent ammo for her.

 

[Fer]

Have you seen any Aguila Ammo? they have a SJHP in 158gr standard pressure, seem ok.
What happens if you drill a hollow on LRN nose?, will it work???

 

[tblt]

I use federal hydra shok low recoil 110 gr hollow points.
Try mail order cheaper than dirt or the sportsmans guide.

 

[jfh]

"...What happens if you drill a hollow on LRN nose?, will it work???"​

It will work, all right--to ruin the ammo for accuracy, not to mention changing the weight and generally ruining the bullet.

If you want 158-gr. LSWC-HP ammo, you can buy the Rem #38S12 at Sportsman's guide for about $.55 per round / 27.50 box of 50, or you can buy the Georgia Arms 38E for about 10.00/50--min. order of 5 boxes, I believe--only they're not boxes, but poly bags.

Or, if you're a reloader, you can buy either Hornady or Speer 158-gr. LSWC-HP bullets for about 10 cents each--boxes of 300 or 500, respectively. See Midway.

Jim H.

 

[Jim March]

On wadcutters...what's usually wrong with 'em isn't the shape, it's the fact that most are labeled "target" and are seriously wimpy in terms of speed.

Buffalo Bore's variant doing about 900+ even in a snub is a whole 'nuther story entirely. Right now, that's the only source of a combat-grade full wadcutter in a factory load.