38 Special set-back

[Tree Rat]

Loaded up some 125 JHP's the other night using my Remington brass stockpile..........and could press the bullet into the case with the micrometer when checking OAL.

1. Switched from Remington SJHP to Star JHP with same results.

2. Varied crimp, no help. (OAL 1.445 crimping at first 1/4 of the cannulure).

Loaded a couple of rounds with brass known to be of a less number of firings......better if not perfect

Loaded a couple with virgin brass.....perfect.


Sooo.....I assume my brass is just plain worn out, unable to hold proper case neck tension? I estimate upwards to 8-10 firings, mostly moderate pressure loads non+P.

Still real pretty and hate to throw it out.


TR

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[Quantrill]

Use them for flush mounted 148gr. wadcutter target loads. Quantrill

 

[HSMITH]

Remington brass of recent is thin, really thin. Your sizing die is not sizing it down far enough. The reason you run into this is that after a few loadings the brass work hardens and gets harder and more 'springy', and it springs back open after sizing more than it used to. One of the easy ways to get around this is to not use remington brass. You can get a die that sizes a little smaller, and you could always anneal the brass. What you ran into is not all that unusual, but it definately is a problem. Without a good firm grip on the bullet pressures in the case can't build properly on firing before the case releases the bullet and ignition will be terrible. Pull the bullets on this batch and continue on with some good brass, if it were me I would just heave the Remington.

 

[Tree Rat]

Something I forgot to mention......

There is set-back as I described before. The good thing is you cannot pull the bullet past the crimp (even light ones), but I don't know if this is enough case tension for good ignition.

The wadcutter application is a good suggestion except that I hate loading those things!


TR

 

[Black Snowman]

I first ran into this problem with the Remington brass while reloading for .40 S&W. I now toss all Remington pistol brass except for .44 Mag, which i'm watching carefully

Even with the Lee Carbide Crimp dies I had to re-crimp and over-crimp the Remington to make it secure and I decided that shooting .40 S&W in a Glock it just wasn't worth the risk to use their brass. I've watched it suspiciously ever since.

 

[Tree Rat]

Okay what's some better 38 Special brass?

What about Remington nickel vs Remington brass....other than it splits at the case mouth pretty early?

TR

 

[dodgestdshift]

The crimp is not meant to stop the bullet from sliding into the case because of recoil or feeding forces. The crimp is to hold the bullet from sliding out, and give resistance so the powder will burn properly. The proper sizing of the case is what prevents the bullet from sliding into the case. If you can push the bullet into the case, crimping harder will not fix the problem and probably cause more problems it will fix. With this problem look into your sizing problem, not a crimp problem.

 

[Thirties]

Switch to Starline brass

For pistol ammo, switch to Starline brass -- you won't regret it one little bit!

 

[Tree Rat]

Yea thanks. I knew that about crimp....but thought I'd try varying anyway.


TR

 

[Black Snowman]

I've had good luck with everything I've tried in .38 Spl so I'm a bad reference, but I'll second Starline as a great value in new brass. I picked it up in 10mm when I found that buying off the shelf 10mm to accumulate brass was going to be impractical in the amounts I wanted.

Brass in most major brands should work just fine. I've used Speer, Eld/PMC, Fed, S&B, Win, and others and they have all worked fine for me. I hear Amerc is to be avoided, I've never seen it personally.

 

[Tree Rat]

Went back to the Federal +P Nickel stock tonight.........

OAL variance +/- .002, flows through the XL-650 like butter, bullet set like concrete, 200 rounds PERFECT!

Forgot how GOOD that brass (nickel) really is.



TR

 

[tex_n_cal]

Dig out your case expander plug, and you will likely find that it checks .355 - .356" in diameter, which is too damn big. Oversize expanders are a pet peeve of mine.

Have it machined, or just file it down to .352" or smaller. Bullet fit will be tighter.

A few years ago in Handloader Dave Scovil did some tests with a .45 Colt, and he showed that when the expander was more than .005" smaller than bullet diameter, and a heavy crimp was used, he got the lowest velocity variance, and the best accuracy - as compared to factory dies with light crimps applied.

In any straight walled pistol case, accuracy, velocity variation, and reliability are all best served with tight bullet fits, and firm crimps.

 

[kimbernut]

R-P Brass

About 4 years ago I went through the same general process because of .380 Auto handloads that would push back into the case at the slightest pressure. All R-P cases. The same batch contained Win.,S&B,F-C, & Speer cases. I ended up throwing out a mostly new lot of R-P brass. Went to Starline for my next new brass on .380 Auto & .45ACP+P and have had no problems. On once fired range pickup brass - my only problems have been R-P cases. I think HSMITH has said it right ,"......heave the Remington ."

 

[Johnny Guest]

Generally agree - - -

Several years ago, I bought around 3,000 cases from an old handloader's estate. Most were headstamped REM-UMC, and I had a bad time trying to get these to hold jacketed bullets. I finally sorted them all out and loaded ONLY 230 LRN bullets in the UMC cases. No problems thereafter. Apparently the thin Rem brass thing has been going on for a long time.

Best,
Johnny

 

[Tree Rat]

Thanks for all the input.

Loaded my virgin brass last night....EXTRA SWEET!


Don't forget........the cases in question have been loaded 8-10 times.
Not bad performance for any brass. Haven't lost any confidence in Remington yet.



TR

 

[M2HMGHB]

I purchased some RP 357 magnum cases before, and i must say they were the worst pieces of garbage i have ever had the misfortune of buying. Out of 300 cases i had to throw 12 out because of cracking in the sizing die. I have also found the problems with bullet setback and was forced to use a heavy crimp which will likely shorten the already short life of this brass. All in all I'll be buying Winchester and Magtech(headstamp CBC) brass as these seem to last the longest and off the most value.

Scott