the problem i had was with my 460..shot many rounds of 45lc through nit and thouhgt i had it cleaned but all of a sudden i couldnt chamber a 460 round. cleaned it until it shined and loads fine now. then i did the same to my 357 and i noticed that spent shells just fall out now. just clean it until chamber shines.
.38 Specials will damage .357 cylinders?
- Thread starter Bart Noir
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wheelgunner100
Member
For about four years I used a 3" GP-100 as my IDPA gun shooting +P+ level .38 specials. As long as you keep the chambers clean no problem. I have put more of those loads thru that gun than some people will shoot in a lifetime. Chambers are as slick as the day I bought it.
Ifishsum
Member
Powder fouling can give moisture a place to accumulate and I could see how moisture trapped in the fouling over time could cause pitting in the cylinders - if the gun was stored improperly for a lengthy period of time without being properly cleaned first. Someone might assume the damage was caused by the shorter rounds...
There will be a certain amount of flame erosion in the cylinders of .357 Magnum revolvers that have had large quantities of .38 Special +P and/or +P+ jacketed ammunition fired through them.
I have replaced cylinders on Model 19 Smith and Wessons that did suffer from this problem.
Standard .38 Special ammunition doesn't produce a hot enough flame at a long enough flash time to cause this, but as the other posters have noted, lead bullet ammunition can cause a ring of lead residue to build up and this will cause the cases of .357 magnum ammunition to stick as well as cause the unsightly pitting that goes along with not cleaning the mess out after each shooting session.
This is the same reason some older multi-cartridge .22 rimfire weapons have functioning and extraction problems with the longer .22 LR and Long cartridges but feed shorts just fine.
That lead residue builds up and causes pitting which will cause extraction problems even after the residue is cleaned out.
My advise, especially if you are a reloader, is to use standard .357 magnum cases in your .357 revolvers and download the shells to .38 special velocities.
You will not have to worry about cylinder sticking issues if you do this and clean frequently.
Because of the reduced bullet jump you will actually see an increase in the ability of the revolver to print tighter groups on paper, a big plus for using the longer cases in my book.
If you elect to use full wadcutter bullets then remember to increase your powder charge by at least ten percent in the longer cases as they will not detonate properly at the lighter charge weights and you can stick the lead wadcutter bullets in the bore if you try to use the lighter charges.
I have replaced cylinders on Model 19 Smith and Wessons that did suffer from this problem.
Standard .38 Special ammunition doesn't produce a hot enough flame at a long enough flash time to cause this, but as the other posters have noted, lead bullet ammunition can cause a ring of lead residue to build up and this will cause the cases of .357 magnum ammunition to stick as well as cause the unsightly pitting that goes along with not cleaning the mess out after each shooting session.
This is the same reason some older multi-cartridge .22 rimfire weapons have functioning and extraction problems with the longer .22 LR and Long cartridges but feed shorts just fine.
That lead residue builds up and causes pitting which will cause extraction problems even after the residue is cleaned out.
My advise, especially if you are a reloader, is to use standard .357 magnum cases in your .357 revolvers and download the shells to .38 special velocities.
You will not have to worry about cylinder sticking issues if you do this and clean frequently.
Because of the reduced bullet jump you will actually see an increase in the ability of the revolver to print tighter groups on paper, a big plus for using the longer cases in my book.
If you elect to use full wadcutter bullets then remember to increase your powder charge by at least ten percent in the longer cases as they will not detonate properly at the lighter charge weights and you can stick the lead wadcutter bullets in the bore if you try to use the lighter charges.
wheelgunslinger
Member
over my years of dealing with Wheelguns™, I have heard a lot of people's opinions about how I should go about it.
currently, I carry a Dan Wesson loaded with 38+p ammo. as long as I keep it clean, I have no problems. Since I don't want problems, I keep it clean.
No problem.
I like this guys explanation though. Very wordy and full of fuzzy science.
currently, I carry a Dan Wesson loaded with 38+p ammo. as long as I keep it clean, I have no problems. Since I don't want problems, I keep it clean.
No problem.
I like this guys explanation though. Very wordy and full of fuzzy science.
SSN Vet
Member
Ah Ha! I'm learning something.....but need help
I've probably only put 500 or so rounds through my older Taurus .357...and am by no stretch of the imagination a "gunny" or even a highly experienced shooter.
About 2/3 of those 500 round have been inexpensive (white box Winchester) 38s and I definately have a "ring" in my cylinders.
I clean the gun after every range session using Outer's "Nitro" Solvent and a 38 cal copper brush....and I haven't been able to get rid of the rings.
I have had no problems with 357 casings sticking.....but I am the kind of guy who likes to take good care of all of my tools.....
SO
What do I need to do to get rid of the rings?
I had never heard of a "cylinder" brush...but it makes sense that a slightly larger diameter would help. Will this make a difference?
Do I need so use a different solvent?
Do I need to disasemble the revolver (not sure how to do that) and soak the cylinder?
I'd appreciate any feedback.
I've probably only put 500 or so rounds through my older Taurus .357...and am by no stretch of the imagination a "gunny" or even a highly experienced shooter.
About 2/3 of those 500 round have been inexpensive (white box Winchester) 38s and I definately have a "ring" in my cylinders.
I clean the gun after every range session using Outer's "Nitro" Solvent and a 38 cal copper brush....and I haven't been able to get rid of the rings.
I have had no problems with 357 casings sticking.....but I am the kind of guy who likes to take good care of all of my tools.....
SO
What do I need to do to get rid of the rings?
I had never heard of a "cylinder" brush...but it makes sense that a slightly larger diameter would help. Will this make a difference?
Do I need so use a different solvent?
Do I need to disasemble the revolver (not sure how to do that) and soak the cylinder?
I'd appreciate any feedback.
No I do not agree with him and here's why .
My first .357 "S&W 586" had the same problem and I bought it brand new , it only had ejection problems with magnum cases , I took it in for repair and the extractor was oversized , I had it back a week later and shot it for years with both 38's and .357's and never had the problem again .
Now I do clean my 357's with a 45 brush instead of a 38 one because the oversized brush does a better job of getting it good and clean .
Yes the 38's will create a ring "as will the magniums but it will be farther in the cylinder" that your magnum casings will go over as they are longer but if your weapon is kept clean it wont be a problem .
My first .357 "S&W 586" had the same problem and I bought it brand new , it only had ejection problems with magnum cases , I took it in for repair and the extractor was oversized , I had it back a week later and shot it for years with both 38's and .357's and never had the problem again .
Now I do clean my 357's with a 45 brush instead of a 38 one because the oversized brush does a better job of getting it good and clean .
Yes the 38's will create a ring "as will the magniums but it will be farther in the cylinder" that your magnum casings will go over as they are longer but if your weapon is kept clean it wont be a problem .
BluesBear
member
Bart, we have occasionally have the same problem with Lady45's Taurus .357 as the letter writer in your opening post does.
That comes from her shooting a lot of Miwall or HSM "bargain" ammo. It leaves a lot of Schmutt™ in the cylinder. A throuough cleaning always fixes the problem.
Her Taurus' chambers are a little tighter than those in my Models 27 & 28. It will happen in my S&Ws but not as fast as in the Taurus. Older Colt's often have tighter chambers too.
Schmutt. (sh-mut) n. sticky combination of soot from dirty powder and residue from cheap gooey bullet lube.
That comes from her shooting a lot of Miwall or HSM "bargain" ammo. It leaves a lot of Schmutt™ in the cylinder. A throuough cleaning always fixes the problem.
Her Taurus' chambers are a little tighter than those in my Models 27 & 28. It will happen in my S&Ws but not as fast as in the Taurus. Older Colt's often have tighter chambers too.
Schmutt. (sh-mut) n. sticky combination of soot from dirty powder and residue from cheap gooey bullet lube.
I could see this as a problem if one were to shoot vast ammounts of hot (38+p) short 38 in a .357,but most folks would use either regular mild 38sp or just jump to full .357.. In some type of extreme situation I suppose it is possible but generally it is just a case of the gun in question needing a beter cleaning. Chop off that old cleaning rod and chuck it up in your drill and go to town!
Smith357
Member
He is as full of it as a Christmas turkey.
I fired .38 spl almost exclusivly through my 686 and 66, Each trip to the range I would shoot 2-300 38s and finish with 12-18 .357s. Once in a while when the revolvers were really dirty .357s would be a bit snug when loading and extracting. But after a good cleaning they worked just fine.
I fired .38 spl almost exclusivly through my 686 and 66, Each trip to the range I would shoot 2-300 38s and finish with 12-18 .357s. Once in a while when the revolvers were really dirty .357s would be a bit snug when loading and extracting. But after a good cleaning they worked just fine.
JERRY
Member
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i didnt read them all..........but has anyone suggested using a spent .357 case to insert and scrape away the fouling caused by the shorter .38 bass?
this is a pre curser to normal cleaning but it will scrape away some build up.
i have no problems with my .357 shooting .38spl ammo.....proper gun maintanance will solve these signs of neglect.
this is a pre curser to normal cleaning but it will scrape away some build up.
i have no problems with my .357 shooting .38spl ammo.....proper gun maintanance will solve these signs of neglect.
gandog56
Member
I dont believe it one little bit. I've been shooting both 38 special and 357 magnums out of my Taurus 66 for over twenty some years, and I don't have any ejection problems. I probably shoot 3 boxes of DEWC's for every box of magnums.
Carl N. Brown
Member
I have owned .357s from Ruger since the 1980s.
I currently own a stainless Security-Six.
I have shot thousands of rounds of .38 special,
much of it reloaded, and hundreds of .357.
My observation, for what is worth, is this:
Firing .38 Special in a .357 magnum chamber will
build up deposits of powder residue and bullet metal.
It will not cut or erode chamber metal from gas.
If .38 Spl gas was that hot, it would burn away the deposits.
If the deposits are not cleaned away, corrosion under
the deposits may eat away some metal
causing pitting or at worst a ring in the chamber.
Normal cleaning will prevent this from happening.
The regimental surgeon recommends a stiff wire brush
applied with vigor.
I currently own a stainless Security-Six.
I have shot thousands of rounds of .38 special,
much of it reloaded, and hundreds of .357.
My observation, for what is worth, is this:
Firing .38 Special in a .357 magnum chamber will
build up deposits of powder residue and bullet metal.
It will not cut or erode chamber metal from gas.
If .38 Spl gas was that hot, it would burn away the deposits.
If the deposits are not cleaned away, corrosion under
the deposits may eat away some metal
causing pitting or at worst a ring in the chamber.
Normal cleaning will prevent this from happening.
The regimental surgeon recommends a stiff wire brush
applied with vigor.
JNewell
Member
Sort of like an insufficiently short throat (or an over-length case in a normal throat) - this happens sometimes with rifles.
pcf
Member
My 10-5 has been fired so much, starting off with my grandfather through today, that there is less than an inch of rifling left in the barrel. Most of the shooting was done by previous generations.
After a good cleaning the charge holes are smooth as glass, with no marks or erosion or "spalling".
There's been enough bullets down the barrel to wear the rifling, but the charge holes are fine. Maybe .38s are immune from "spalling" but if the .38 Spcl could "spall" a chamber I think we would have heard about it long ago.
After a good cleaning the charge holes are smooth as glass, with no marks or erosion or "spalling".
There's been enough bullets down the barrel to wear the rifling, but the charge holes are fine. Maybe .38s are immune from "spalling" but if the .38 Spcl could "spall" a chamber I think we would have heard about it long ago.
Zundfolge
Member
Even if you end up damaging the chambers by not cleaning well after lots of .38 special, isn't it still pretty easy to change out the cylinder?
Its not like the pistol would be completely ruined.
Seems to me that if you shoot enough .38spec out of your .357mag that you have to replace the cylinder that you've probably got pretty good with it, so I fail to see the problem.
Guns are tools. All tools wear out eventually. Its how well you use the tools that's important.
Its not like the pistol would be completely ruined.
Seems to me that if you shoot enough .38spec out of your .357mag that you have to replace the cylinder that you've probably got pretty good with it, so I fail to see the problem.
Guns are tools. All tools wear out eventually. Its how well you use the tools that's important.
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