.38 Spl +P 158 GR TMJ flat nose...ONLY TARGET PRACTICE???

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I recently ordered some CCI Blazer .38 Special +P158 grain TMJ flat nose ammunition for target practice. I have two question concerning this ammunition:

1) At only 850 fps, is there any other practical use for this specific ammunition other than target practice out of a 4" barrel service revolver?

2) How hot is this ammunition...would it be too much to practice with in 5-shot .38 specials like the steel framed Taurus Model 85?

Thanks
 

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1. Nonexpanding bullets are often used on small game and non-game animals, less damage to the meat and/or pelt.

2. Your Taurus should not have any problem firing this Blazer ammo.
 
I often carry .38 Special "Cowboy" loads (158 grain lead semi-wadcutter/750 FPS/2" barrel) in an airweight Taurus 85 and Colt Dectective Special. Don't feel undergunned at all. Occasionally the same in an old S&W Military & Police - and I'm still am not worried. It's not that I'm limited to the above, I can go to a .44 Special in either barrel length.

Oh, and those cowboy loads are good for practice too...
 
I've shot hundreds of +P through my ultralite Taurus and it's still going strong. That ammo is good and will kill more than just paper. Just put it in the right place and it'll do the job.
 
Lots of people (read millions) have been sent to the grave with smaller and slower rounds than that .38 load. I would not wish to stand in front of it either.
 
1) At only 850 fps, is there any other practical use for this specific ammunition other than target practice out of a 4" barrel service revolver?

You could shoot small animals with it, if you want to be cheap. For larger, two legged predators, no. Not when there are better alternatives. The FBI load or any good hollowpoint will perform better. Sure, shot placement, thousands of people killed with forks, etc. But I like to take advantage of better options.
 
Flat nose effect on tissue??

I agree that this round is no where near a quality hollow-point...but with the flat nose wouldn't there be more damage to tissue than with a round nose bullet? I am assuming if one's back is to the wall, this round coupled with decent shot placement and multiple shots could, as others have said, still take care of business?

Thanks
 
Let me put it like this - if you can't afford a top quality hollow point round, and wish to use this as all you have, then by all means, it beats harsh language by miles! If you can buy a top quality defensive round, such as the 158 gr +P lead semi-wadcutter hollow point, or the 125gr +P JHP stuff, then do so, and use this as practice ammo for your +P JHP loads.
It's better than nothing, but not as good as you can get.
 
I agree that this round is no where near a quality hollow-point...but with the flat nose wouldn't there be more damage to tissue than with a round nose bullet?

Hmmm. Duncan MacPherson wrote on that subject. IIRC, there isn't much difference between a roundnose and a flatpoint. On the other hand, a full wadcutter crushes the most tissue for its diameter.

I am assuming if one's back is to the wall, this round coupled with decent shot placement and multiple shots could, as others have said, still take care of business?

No doubt. It is simply not as efficient as some other loads.
 
The Old Fuff is greatly amused... :D

People have been “getting the business done” for decades past without having to load their chambers and cylinders with the latest fad. And in case some of the high performance advocates haven’t noticed, hollow-pointed bullets don’t always either work either. Emergency room surgeons have pointed out for years that they can’t tell what kind of bullet made a wound channel (other then it was probably big or small) until, or if when they recover the slug.

What really gets the business done is when a vital organ – preferably in the attacker’s central nervous system, get impacted and ceases to function. It is doubtful if the organ knows what hit it, and no matter what it shuts down – if it’s going to at all.

A peripheral hit in a non-vital region isn’t more likely to stop a determined person that a similar hit from a non-fad bullet.

Hollow point bullets tend to lack penetration, which is supposed to be a virtue, unless of course who ever is assaulting you is behind some kind of cover.

The heavier hollow-points require velocity to expand, and that can be difficult to get out of a snubby length barrel. Lighter bullets lack mass, and often don’t shoot to the point of aim – but this may not matter if the shooter doesn’t either...

Somehow I don’t think I’ll give up the ship if I get into trouble and don’t find myself with a particular style of ammunition – they’ll be a lot more important things to worry about then that. And if the proposition is that no one can win in a shooting with anything less then a Plus-P .38 Special, those who have been done in with .22, .25 and .32 handguns must be a myth....

I don’t give a zip about what other folks carry in their guns, and I’m sure no one else cares about what I do. The only problem I see is that some may be so confident in their choice of ammunition that they don’t pay attention to some other important considerations, like exactly hitting the right place, and doing it quickly – every time.
 
The Old Fuff is greatly amused...

You aren't alone.

I wish there had been an internet at the onset of the Civil War. Besides the obvious discussions (.36 vs .44), I can already see Grandpa 1776 posting to tell everyone that he was gettin' it done before the rifled barrel. You don't need one to hit what ya shoot at, he would opine. They would surely become a crutch to young shooters. As for them "minnie ball" bullets, many a man had been cut down by a plain old lead ball and he didn't need none o' that. I'm not sure how he would handle the subject of new fangled revolvers. :evil:

The best load is worthless if you can't put it where it needs to go. But using the best certainly won't hurt.
 
The Old Fuff is greatly amused...

Another amused as well.

Old Fuff wrote:
I don’t give a zip about what other folks carry in their guns, and I’m sure no one else cares about what I do. The only problem I see is that some may be so confident in their choice of ammunition that they don’t pay attention to some other important considerations, like exactly hitting the right place, and doing it quickly – every time.

Yep. Gotta agree with this as well.

Sound like something I would say /have said another way.


It is okay to hit the target, honest, we set these up for folks to actually hit.
-
Retired Sheriff Duty nearing age 70, who just finished shooting at 50 yards with his revolver to a young gentlemen, dressed in the "Part" who missed the 7 yard target with every round from a ...a...it was a really popular handgun, in a popular caliber, with more than 10 rds mag capacity.
 
myself i want to know when a 38 was considered a small load.in my opinion it is one of the better ones out there.it has good knock down power they reload pretty fair they don't break the bank wich means you can practice more and become more accurate wich is the main thing in self defense and you have to remember we are dealing with humans in most self defense situations,wich means a 38 is more than enough unless they are sporting a bullet proof vest.hell a 22lr can stop or kill a human in it's tracks so i know for a fact a 38 will do the trick.everybody today is so much for overkill it ain't even funny.a 38 in my opinion is one of the more versatile rounds out there and i know you will be suprised by how much so it really is.
 
I am not comfortable loading ball ammo (LRN or FMJ/TMJ) in my carry gun when so many reliable, proven alternatives are available. The .38 158gr LSWCHP +P has proven itself, since the 1980's, to perform better than the LRN enough to justify it use, especially out of a 4" barrel. While I strongly agree that shot placement is critical, and those of us choosing to go about armed should train to place our shots accurately, its my opinion that bullet/ammunition selection is a valid concern, at least it is to me.
 
Therefore....

if you kind gentlemen were given the choice of either a 158gr LRN .38 with muzzle velocity of 850ft/s or a 110gr NON +P .38 hollow point at 1050ft/s muzzle velocity, which would you choose.

Please pick one of the above only and assume that no other rounds were available.
 
if you kind gentlemen were given the choice of either a 158gr LRN .38 with muzzle velocity of 850ft/s or a 110gr NON +P .38 hollow point at 1050ft/s muzzle velocity, which would you choose.

Neither option is a good choice, but I would pick the 158 grain LRN. In a fixed-sight revolver it would most likely shoot to the point of aim, and while the round nose configuration imparts little shock it does penetrate, where the light bullet generally doesn't. Again, and in either case, the outcome would depend more on bullet placement then bullet design.
 
Not just amused, but enlightened, whenever Old Fuff deigns to answer something. Many times, also learning something new in my getting into old age. 51 going on 52 here Fuff, have I got you beat, or visa versa. :rolleyes:

The Doc is out now. :cool:

PS, for target, try wadcutters. Small game and people will fall to the cartridge you have there, but others have already said that.
 
if you kind gentlemen were given the choice of either a 158gr LRN .38 with muzzle velocity of 850ft/s or a 110gr NON +P .38 hollow point at 1050ft/s muzzle velocity, which would you choose.

Please pick one of the above only and assume that no other rounds were available.

158gr LRN .38 with muzzle velocity of 850ft is my choice as well.

FWIW I have seen more than one cow put down by this load.
 
Neither option is a good choice, but I would pick the 158 grain LRN. In a fixed-sight revolver it would most likely shoot to the point of aim

That is true. Particularly with moderate to full .357 loads, the 125-158 grain bullets hit reasonably close to the same poi while the 110s are significantly low.
Various animals I have shot tend to fall out quicker to lead hollow points or high velocity JHPs than any sort of non expanding load. I would be inclined to think this would hold true with human targets as well but I can't proove it having not shot any. There is quite a body of literature, including both loudly stated opinion and "definitive studies" about the stopping power or lack thereof of various loads. Much of the literary energy is expended debunking one or another stopping power guru.
A person can be forgiven for not being able to decide what to believe.
 
While we're on the subject, I'm looking for a non +p carry load for my model 60. Does anyone here have a favorite commercial option for 158gr non +p .38spl?
 
It isn't the optimum, but nobody not trying to commit suicide is going to thank you if they get a couple in the face.

If they're close in trajectory to something better, like the 158gr. +P LSWC "FBI" load, they'd be great for practice. Practice with the cheap stuff, carry the expensive.
 
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