44 Magnum, 296/110 and Lee auto disk

[Warners]

I'm about to start loading for a new caliber (44 magnum) with a new powder (W296/H110). After thinking that I'd have to go to a double-disk setup on my Lee Classic turret press to get enough powder in the case, I found that by using the very largest hole in the single disk setup (can't recall how it was marked right now, but I believe it was the 1.57cc hole), it threw exactly 24 grains of the W296 powder. Is this what you guys have found?

Let me know and thanks,

Warner

 

[Reefinmike]

h110 binds up my autodisk within 3 charges :banghead: same with win 748. May have to do with the fact I shaved down the edges of the hopper to make a better fit on the disk to stop any powder leakage. If it consistently measures 24.0 with your setup, then thats what it measures with your setup. Weigh out every 5 the first box, then every 10 the second box, then a few per box, then the first and last round of each box and eventually when you trust it enough, just check the first load, or if you are crazy like me, just chuck the disk in and start loading 20,000 loads through my turret in the past year and I have faith that it is within .05gr each and every time.

 

[dragon813gt]

If that's what yours is throwing then that's what it's throwing. I stopped using it in the PAD. It leaks like a sieve no matter what I do so H110 is relegated to the Chargemaster.


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[RealGun]

24.0g with the largest 1.57cc aperture is exactly what the Lee chart indicates for H110. However, that is not exactly a "starting load" for either H110 or especially W296, assuming 240g jacketed bullets. Are you looking forward to near max recoil and noise?

You didn't mention knowing that magnum primers (LPMP) would be needed.

 

[dragon813gt]

for either H110 or especially W296,

They are the same powder so there should be no "especially".


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[RealGun]

They are the same powder so there should be no "especially".The loads listed are different.

The loads listed are different.

 

[Rule3]

For the OP, you did not mention what bullet? The LEE chart is sometimes close, other times it may be high or low. Depends on the powder. It is, what it is when measure it and weigh it

As to H110 and Win 296 they are exactly the same powder as has been discussed a gazillion times. Made at St Marks here in FL
Some of the old data has slightly different weights due to different tests or lot numbers. The newer Hodgdons data is the same.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

 

[RealGun]

It doesn't really matter if H110 and W296 are the same. The fact is that the charges run higher for W296 in the reference I used, so that higher charge is one that is "ESPECIALLY" of concern.

 

[Warners]

24.0 Grains is what I'm measuring with the 1.57cc aperture, checking multiple times. As has been the case with the loads I've done so far, the charge only fluctuates by less than .1 grain. As far as the bullet type, yes, Hornady 240grain XTP bullets. It will be shot in a Ruger Super Redhawk. I'll be using Winchester LP primers, which say they are for standard OR magnum loads. Will these not work? Not work reliably? Be just fine?

Thanks in advance,

Warner


PS - Yes, I AM looking forward to the full 44 magnum loads. At least for a bit. If it starts to bother me, I'll switch to a lighter caliber.

PPS - Everything that I've read about H110/W296 is not to load more than 3% UNDER max loads, so using that powder pretty much guarantees a full magnum load, no?

 

[Rule3]

Yes, the Win LPP are good for regular and Magnum Loads.

As to using Max loads to start out, that is not a recommended practice. You should always start low and work up. You indicate you are new to this so at least use the lower charge that Hodgdon publishes.

Yes, Hodgdon recommends the 3% rule, but many tests in manuals do not follow that.

This is a good example. The Hornady manual #8 starts at a lower weight than the Hodgdons. They tested in a Ruger Redhawk. I do not list them as there is too much chance of a typo.

Another reason I prefer 2400 powder as it it more flexible and can be downloaded.

 

[Warners]

I have seen published loads as high as 26.5 gr of W296 for the 240gr XTP, so I feel "safe" with the 24gr that I'll be loading. I will of course be EXTREMELY careful and precise with my powder measurements, as I always am when starting with a new caliber/load, but I honestly don't see a reason to start with less than 24 grains in a Super Redhawk. I appreciate the replies, and I know you guys are looking out for me. I have loaded thousands of rounds in other calibers, just the 44 magnum is new to me, not reloading in general.

Thanks again,

Warner

 

[Rule3]

It is actually pretty hard to blow yourself up with H110 in the 44 Mag. You have more of a chance with faster powders in the big cases. The H110/W296 fills up the case so much you sure will not get a double charge.

I guess the point is how much difference is the 23 VS the 24, doubt you will know the difference,? Your gun and extremities.

 

[Warners]

It is actually pretty hard to blow yourself up with H110 in the 44 Mag. You have more of a chance with faster powders in the big cases. The H110/W296 fills up the case so much you sure will not get a double charge.

I guess the point is how much difference is the 23 VS the 24, doubt you will know the difference,? Your gun and extremities.

Yeah, agreed. I'm usually a middle of the road load type of guy. All of my other reloading has been with HP38 in middle, to upper middle level loads in 9x18, 9x19, 38 special, and 45 ACP. But when I started reading up on the H110/W296, it seemed that it was MUCH more dangerous to UNDER load than overload. Most of the issues I'd read about were loads that were too light. 24 grains of W296 is definitely a FULL load, but I feel safer with that (esp in the Super Redhawk) than I would with too light of a load. What got me thinking of buying the Super Redhawk was shooting a friend's S&W 500 Magnum with the 3" barrel. Now THAT sucker will let you know you pulled the trigger! NOT something I'd want to shoot all day. I could definitely see doing some nerve/joint damage from long term shooting of that guy. The scoped Super Redhawk with 7 1/2 barrel in 44 magnum will probably be mild in comparison.

Warner

 

[Warners]

Update

Okay...after receiving all of the components and dies, and getting them set up, here's what I'm finding:

1 - Whoever said W296 doesn't meter well through the autodisk....was RIGHT. I'm really getting measurements all over the place. I'm trying to throw 24.0 grains, and I'm GETTING anywhere from 23.6 to 24.5 or so. This means I have to weigh every load. I don't mind since I'm right near the top load and want to be careful, but this sure isn't what I'm used to when loading all my other mid-level loads with HP38. The auto disk throws accurately with that down to .05 grains, in my experience. Not at ALL what I'm seeing with the 1.57cc hole and the W296 powder! Any suggestions? Would it be more consistent if I did the double-disk setup instead of using the largest single hole? Or is it just a case of, "it is what it is"? I dumped WAY more powder back in the bin than I loaded. I came to accept anything that was between 23.8 and 24.0 grains.

2 - I need some expert consensus on the amount of crimp that I'm using. I'm using the Lee factory crimp die in the 4th hole of my turret. The first cartridge that I crimped is shown in the first photo below. To me, it looked like too much crimp so I backed off. What I got was what is shown in the bottom photo, which I think looks about right, but I'd like the long term reloaders to chime in.

3 - I'm setting my OAL to 1.600" for this load.


Comments and suggestions WELCOME!

Thanks guys,

Warner



Maybe it's just me, but this looks like too much crimp. I only loaded ONE case like this. If you agree it's too much crimp, should I tear this one down and do it over:




This is how I have the Factory crimp die set now:

 

[Rule3]

I have no problem metering H110 or W 296. You say you are trying to meter 24 grains but the sic will give you what it gives. You have no control over it, It should however be consistent and not that far off.

Without the powder hopper on or any powder, just the disc, pull the lever and be sure the disc hole goes completely over the drop hole. If it doesn't. Call lee and they have a different internal tube they will send you for the powder through die. Something about the inside shoulder height.

 

[Warners]

Yeah, I was looking at that when I first set it up....I was running into (user!) problems because the hole was NOT going all the way over the drop tube. Once I figured out the (user!) problem of trying to use a 44 special case in place of the longer 44 Magnum case, it appeared that the hole WAS opening all the way. It's close, but I believe it is. I can tear it all down and take another look possibly tomorrow. That's partly why I wondered if it wouldn't be advisable to go to the double disk setup (which I just bought) and see if that helps.

Thanks for the reply.......how about the crimps in the above photos? Any feedback on those?

Thanks in advance,

Warner

 

[4895]

I like the first crimp. It looks right on for thos HOT magnum loads. The second pic looks great for a medium crimp target load such as Unique or W231.

 

[Shimitup]

I can see where the crimp shoulder in the die slipped past the case in the first one, too heavy. Bullets with a very deep cannelure make that a bit of a problem too even if you dont feel like you're getting a heavy crimp, the old Hornadys were like that. I've noticed that the XTP's have a more moderate cannelure. You also rounded the nose pretty good on the first one from the excessive crimp. You might want to try a SWC seater plug on this style bullet instead of the round nose seater. I've seen round nose seaters start turning in the nose on these just from good neck tension.

Take Care

 

[Warners]

I can see where the crimp shoulder in the die slipped past the case in the first one, too heavy. Bullets with a very deep cannelure make that a bit of a problem too even if you dont feel like you're getting a heavy crimp, the old Hornadys were like that. I've noticed that the XTP's have a more moderate cannelure. You also rounded the nose pretty good on the first one from the excessive crimp. You might want to try a SWC seater plug on this style bullet instead of the round nose seater. I've seen round nose seaters start turning in the nose on these just from good neck tension.

Take Care

Good catch on the rounding of the bullet nose, Shimitup! When I read your post last night the first thing that I thought was it was just a bad angle on the photo, but I just checked and you're absolutely RIGHT...the bullet nose IS rounded on that one load. I also did some checking around, looking at factory 44 magnum loads with the Hornady 240gr XTP bullet that I'm using, and NONE of them have that belted look on the crimp. I think my adjustment to the crimp amount is just right now. Hopefully I'll be able to shoot some today or tomorrow and see. I'm expecting a healthy amount of recoil, noise, and flash from these loads.

Warner


PS - I should be picking up my Ruger Super Redhawk from my FFL today.....then I'll mount the Burris scope on it, laser bore sight it in, then head to the local range...Woo Hoo!

 

[98Redline]

24.0gr of H110/296 is going to put you somewhere in the mid 1400's regarding speed. Report and recoil are going to be pretty impressive.

That is really the top end of with H110 and that bullet. Hogden lists the starting load as 23.0 and top load as 24.0 (1.0gr difference between starting and top loads).

I find that my .44s tend to shoot better with a heavier bullet (300+gr). If you can find some 300gr XTPs I think you will be happy with their performance. Those heavy for caliber bullets and top end H110 charge weights provide significant levels of "feedback" to the shooter.


Regarding the primers, I tend to like WLP primers as they fall somewhere between standard LP primers and CCI 350 Magnum primers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I am so tired of people arguing H110 and W296, HP-38 and W231, H414 and W760 and a few others are not the same powders even though the manufacturer has said they are the same. Does anyone really think in this litigious society a manufacturer/distributor would tell us the powders are exactly the same if they weren't? Really?

Before you make yourself look like a fool contact Hodgdon and ask them like many of us have already done.

 

[Rule3]

Before you make yourself look like a fool contact Hodgdon and ask them like many of us have already done.

Now Arch you know that will not help. We have it in writing and that is not enough.
Besides those nice folks at Hodgdons must be tired of it by now. I think it's on their message machine,

 

[Warners]

Okay....after struggling with getting the proper powder charge, I finally decided to try the stacked disks. With the single 1.57cc disk, here's what happened:

If I ran the turret around as if I were loading quickly, the powder charge would almost always be consistently over 24 grains, often as high as 24.6 grains. THAT wasn't going to work! I resorted to dumping a small portion of the powder from the case back into the powder bin until the weight was right.

After putting the double stack kit on, I decided to go with a combination of .88 and .66 disk on top, totaling 1.54 cc's. After doing this, I got weights between 23.6 and 24.0 grains, but never more than 24.0 grains. The difference in weights was DIRECTLY related to whether or not I ran the turret around or just ran it like a single stage press, charging the case then weighing it, over and over. If I ran it as a single stage press, I'd get the lower powder weights. If I ran it with the indexing bar in (so to speak), I'd get consistent weights of 24.0 grains. I believe the reason for this is because as the turret spins around, it shakes up the powder bin, causing more powder to "shake down" into the disk holes. To me, that HAS to be the difference.

I got to a stopping point reloading (had to pick the wife up from work), but when I start back up, I'm going to test again repeatedly, weighing each individual charge again. If I don't see any charges OVER 24.0 grains after loading another 50 rounds, I'm going to feel more comfortable that I won't overcharge any cases with this double disk setup. If some cases "only" have 23.6 grains, I can live with that.

This W296/H110 is like freakin' SAND!

Thanks for any and all feedback!

Warner