.44 S&W SPL. or .45 COLT.

[Stainz]

Jim,

What is wrong with Federal primers? I have loaded and discharged tens of thousands of them with no ftf's, except for a .45 Colt that got one upside down. Before them, I use Win primers - and had several duds. I have 'tried' CCI's, but my soft sprung S&W's 'like' Federals.

Stainz

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Now, which would I go out to the store and buy today for protection? Look around, both gun and ammo selection in DA .44 Special and .45 Colt is lacking even in a well stocked gun store. I'd get a ~2" .38/.357M snubby - an S&W 442/642 can double as a CCW - and load it with those 158gr LHPSWC's - or Speer's 135gr Gold Dots - both +P.

Stainz,
Very true words, that's why I bought a 4" .357 and a .38 snubbie. The ammo is easier to find and more affordable. I use Speer Gold Dot 135 gr short barrel .38 rounds in my S&W 638 and Speer Gold Dot 158 gr .357 rounds in my S&W 619.

 

[BigG]

o

 

[Stainz]

If you reload, .45 S&W/Schoffield cases, while shorter, do have a tad more rim - and don't get caught as easily under my Redhawk's extractor. They also won't feed through the gate on my Rossi/Puma 1892 .45 Colt levergun as a result. Still, they will help.

An internet/mail order dealer has a 'sale' going on loaded 'cowboy' ammo in .45 Schoffield... from American Ammunition (Headstamped 'AMERC'.). I had trouble with their .44 Special ammo and wouldn't touch the stuff- even tossed the empty cases, a hard thing for a .44 Special nut to admit.

BTW, I guess it's the axial slop on the extractor rod of the Redhawk, as I have never had a problem extracting .45 Colts with either of my S&W 625MG's.

Stainz

 

[BigG]

Due to the miniscule rim on the 45 Colt it can more easily drop behind the extractor, tying up the gun.

I did not even realize this. if I had known I might not of purchased a .45 Colt gun.

For those with the experience, how often does the above scenario happen? And what is the best way, without changing guns, to prevent this from happening?

There is a reason very few 45 Colt DAs were ever made until recently, when I guess overwhelming consumer demand dictated S&W to go ahead with what they already knew was a flawed idea. I can only guess that the demand was by guys who newly came into shooting and didn't know much about the limitations of various combinations. This is the same sort of guy who asks how to convert his automatic pistol or bolt action rifle from one caliber to another assuming a barrel is the whole thing and forgets he needs a magazine also. In other words, they have gained most of their knowledge theoretically, reading ballistics charts or whatever and realize that a 45 Colt is a pretty good revolver cartridge and will hold more powder than that puny 45 ACP that uses the funny clips.

This falling behind the extractor will happen quite a bit unless you learn to turn the muzzle up as you shuck the shells out of the cylinder. If you do it horizontal or pointed down, you are going to find how to get them from behind the extractor pretty soon. Pointing the muzzle up also has the benefit of ejecting the dirt and crap along with the cases rather than dropping it back into the extractor recess and frame cutout. You also must be careful when you are checking to see if your gun is loaded. You can't elevate the 45 Colt on the extractor and then release the extractor and let them fall back in to the chamber because there is a good chance one or more will fall behind the extractor.

The 44 Magnum has another benefit I didn't think about before: Many more bullets are available for reloaders. This is a good thing from the availability and also price may be a little less because they "move" faster.

I have heard all the "yeah but" arguments that you can buy or load "nuclear level" loads in a 45 Colt that will meet or exceed the power of a 44 Magnum, and that is true, as far as it goes. However, my observation is that people don't like to shoot nuclear level loads much and it's mostly a point of pride moreso than any actual utility. Again, the cheapness of most shooters I know precludes them buying any of those super duper "Buffalo Ball" or Chore Boy" nuclear loads that cost a buck a shot.

 

[Sistema1927]

I used to load all of my .45 Colt with CCI primers. However, after an action job by Steve Young my 1892 won't always set off these harder primers. I switched to Federal, which are much softer. I have no problem with the Federal primers

 

[Warren]

Thanks, BigG.

I purchased the .45 Colt to be able to share the same ammo with a soon to be purchased pump-action rifle. Also because of it's lower operating pressure.

Well, I'll just have to be careful on the ejection.

 

[Jim March]

Huh.

CCI Rimfire ignition is supposed to be the best, and has been in my experience (22LR and Magnum)...Federal and Winchester 22Mag have both given me problems.

I've shot a fair amount of CCI/Speer factory centerfire ammo with zero issues. I may have my brands mixed up on the centerfire though, I thought it was Federal that were "hard"?

 

[Stainz]

Federal is the easier to ignite primer. In fact, Dillon suggests they not be used in their equipment as a result of their 'soft' nature. I have had zero problems reloading with Federal primers in the only reloading press I have ever used, a Dillon 550B.

BigG,

Re your .45 Colt DA revolver comments... I have not had the empties slipping under the ejector problem with either my '96 or '01 version of the .45 Colt S&W 625 Mountain Gun. Admittedly, I do not 'Hollywood' rap the extractor rod for ejection, either. Still, with my Redhawk, and especially if I do it slowly or sporadically, I have had a few, albeit infrequent, such 'catches'. As to ultimate 'power', make no mistake, a large charge and bullet combo can easily outdo a .44 Magnum - and at a lessor recoil. That, of course, requires a T/C or Ruger, etc, SA for the launch platform. The .45 Colt does typically have other problems.

First, the cylinder exit bores are often improperly sized - and, in Ruger's case, inconsistent. Thankfully, the Rugers are generally undersized, which can be reamed to the proper size. Some earlier S&W's actually were oversized, not a fixable fault, except with a new cylinder. Second is the over-sized chambers employed by Ruger and S&W - actually the old blackpowder sized SAAMI specification. With properly sized cartridges, they actually are loose when inserted. At lower 'cowboy' levels, the case mouth often won't obturate to the point where it gas seals, resulting in the well known 'smoke trail' generally on the 'top' (fired position) of the fired case. This lessens with increasing pressure loads. Since the new .45 Colt S&W 625's are built on the .45 ACP 625 frame, one must assume that they are also capable of at least 21kpsi, instead of the SAAMI .45 Colt 14 kpsi. That level should lessen or remove the 'smoke trail'.

With all of it's problems, I still really like the old cartridge. Sure, you can get decent levels with a .45 Auto Rim, too... but that big old cartridge is neat. I do admit an uncanny admiration for it's historical predecessor, the .44 Russian, but that's another chapter...

Stainz

 

[BigG]

The old revolver cartridges were designed when Black Powder was the Norm

Thanks, Stainz, for the real world update on the 45 Colt DA revos.

I'm thinking now, with the more efficient powders, the way to go would be shorter cartridges. That way the ejection of empties would be much easier than the long magnum length that need the cutout in the left grip to clear the rims. JMTC

 

[CSA 357]

Well i like the 44 spec, why? i dont have a 45 lc, i have two 44 magnums and one 44 spec i use the same dies, same bullets , but my bed side gun is a smith & wesson mod 27 loaded with 125jhp csa