444 Marlin accuracy issue

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JPSauer said:
Thank you for the comments
I understand where your coming from, i just dont have access to the 100m range that accepts centerfire for the next few months (i live in aust, ranges here are far and few). 100m would be ideal.
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Not to sound any more like a ignorant red neck than usual but do you mean Australia, Austria, or Austin?
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Just FYI and for the folks who posted about their early JM barreled ‘95’s, the Remington-made Marlin’s have a very bad reputation for quality and consistency. They are NOT early or mid-70’s .444’s. Not even close. I’m actually a little surprised the OP is getting sub-1” at 50m.
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Except that my two most accurate Marlins are a Remington made 336S and a Remington made 1895SBL. And I have JMs to compare. They also cycle over length ammo more consistently and run very smooth.

There are many things that can cause accuracy issues with a tube magazine, two piece stock lever gun aside from a bad barrel because people do not like Remington and like to blame them and that for the cause. Some things to check after you consider that the magazine is loaded with huge cartridges pulling downward on the barrel. Does this rifle have a barrel band? I have had several Marlins of various vintage that when I explored accuracy problems I found that there was tension being exerted upon the barrel by the magazine tenon/screw at the muzzle end with the stock cap/band being the fulcrum/bending point. I had to do some filing and shimming to remove the preload. Also, as the barrel heats, the magazine does not, this also pulls the barrel downward. I have found that after about three shots in fairly rapid succession the groups may open up or string unless some cooling time is allowed in subsequent shots. Then to top it off, some JM barrels were not in alignment with the receiver, so if scoped there might be an issue there, but since this is a Remington rifle it probably is actually straight. Is the forestock loose on the rifle, any at all?

3C
 
Mark_Mark said:
I got 4-5 boxes of factory .444 marlin. Tried to sell it but nobody wanted them! lol I guest I have to find a rifle to not waste ammo
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Hey Mark Mark. I have a 20 rd box of 444 REM cases that ive had since late 80’s or early 90’s that you can have for zilch if you find a gun to shoot yours. Pm me @ [email protected] when you get the gun.
 
Jackiesman said:
Hey Mark Mark. I have a 20 rd box of 444 REM cases that ive had since late 80’s or early 90’s that you can have for zilch if you find a gun to shoot yours. Pm me @ [email protected] when you get the gun.
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MAN! you are the definition of a enabler!

JM marked Marlin??? or a Nice Henry

Thanks for the Encouragement!!!

I was saving my Pennies for a 1911 but…
 
Doug444 said:
I, too, use the forearm hand-supported on sandbags technique with 2-piece stocked lever guns, and I believe it makes a difference. Feels more "natural", too, at least for me.
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I will do this on my next range visit and report back
 
Offfhand said:
Accuracy issue?? What were you expecting? Did you fire only one group with each load and consider that conclusive? A .444 Marlin lever rifle is not a 6.5.
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After the ladder test i shot 10 x 5 shot groups. 50 in total.
Groups showed promising 3 shots, 4th maybe extra inch but fifth way out.
Thats when i got confused as to why i didnt get the accuracy i had in ladder test.
I have a vortex scout 2-7x33
I will have my hand under forend for next range visit and wait between shots to allow barrel to cool.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Not to sound any more like a ignorant red neck than usual but do you mean Australia, Austria, or Austin?
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Hahaa
I meant Australia - where some chasis systems are illegal because - owning a licenced/registered bolt action rifle that "resembles in appearance a military firearm" is illegal. Not an easy place to find a decent range.
 
3Crows said:
Except that my two most accurate Marlins are a Remington made 336S and a Remington made 1895SBL. And I have JMs to compare. They also cycle over length ammo more consistently and run very smooth.

There are many things that can cause accuracy issues with a tube magazine, two piece stock lever gun aside from a bad barrel because people do not like Remington and like to blame them and that for the cause. Some things to check after you consider that the magazine is loaded with huge cartridges pulling downward on the barrel. Does this rifle have a barrel band? I have had several Marlins of various vintage that when I explored accuracy problems I found that there was tension being exerted upon the barrel by the magazine tenon/screw at the muzzle end with the stock cap/band being the fulcrum/bending point. I had to do some filing and shimming to remove the preload. Also, as the barrel heats, the magazine does not, this also pulls the barrel downward. I have found that after about three shots in fairly rapid succession the groups may open up or string unless some cooling time is allowed in subsequent shots. Then to top it off, some JM barrels were not in alignment with the receiver, so if scoped there might be an issue there, but since this is a Remington rifle it probably is actually straight. Is the forestock loose on the rifle, any at all?

3C
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Hello
Forestock is not loose its not banded ita got the screw in the end of the mag. That does make sence, i will have to wait for barrel to cool and report back.

Thank you for your help i appreciate all the comments and support. A lovely forum!
 
JPSauer said:
Hello
Forestock is not loose its not banded ita got the screw in the end of the mag. That does make sence, i will have to wait for barrel to cool and report back.

Thank you for your help i appreciate all the comments and support. A lovely forum!
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It was not my intention to upset any persons. I like to get at the actual causes of a problem though.

I suggest to loosen the magazine screw and see if it pulls away from the barrel as you loosen it. In other words, do you have to squeeze the magazine upward to the barrel, even slightly, to fully tighten the magazine screw. If so you may find that the forestock cap which has two screws, one from each side, may be pushing the magazine downward (essentially becoming a fulcrum point). If this is the case, it definitely will exacerbate accuracy issues due to barrel heating. You may have to shim the front of the magazine down or make a new tenon or reduce the cap and tenon or both. We want the magazine to lay as neutral as possible without preloading the barrel (which it will of course do simply by the weight of the cartridges).

I guess others may disagree with what I am saying but I have found a poor fit of magazine to barrel on Marlin rifles going back to my oldest 1956 JM 39A and my 73 336 Texan. It is worth a look see if nothing else.

Someone may need to let Ruger in on this, I think Remington discovered it at some point. I have both a Remington and a Ruger 1895 SBL, guess which one I had to adjust a little bit ;).

3C
 
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I have a bolt action rifle that will only group for 3 shot groups then it opens way up. I think the issue is with the gun and more than 3 shot groups. I do not think it is the ammo. I could not do a ladder test with my rifle. It would take all summer. But those first 3 shots always group and group in the same place each time. Some riflers are just not for continously banging away.
 
I had an -06 (an old Remington) that would shoot a 4 shot group just great. After that I would have to let it cool or it would start sending flyers. Back in those days I wasn’t smart enough to look for anything else.
 
I think everyone has you going the right direction. One other thing I found was load development goes best if I keep the number of rounds in the magazine the same.
It could be that I'm just waiting longer between shots.
 
Yes, i appreciate all the help fellow shooters.
I will be going range soon and will report back
 
Marlin lever action rifles ARE NOT TARGET RIFLES!!!!

If the OP is getting the accuracy he’s stating, he needs to pack up and go home.
Then, go hunting!

I’ve got 11 Marlin L/A’s at last count. One of the most accurate is a 2016 Remlin” M1895. It’s a one-hole tack driver (sledgehammer?) for three shots! However, shots 4- infinity will string! It’s the nature of the design. There are techniques to minimize or mitigate but it is what it is!


EE3A0166-C8B2-434E-93FA-A0759A10CBDC.jpeg

400gr Lee .458” FN @ .460”, over 20gr of #2400 w/ 1gr of Dacron filler @50yds
3-shots. Bushnell 2-7x scope. 83BDA703-40F4-4986-A63C-42B4A21BC975.jpeg

It’s the one on top. I got both for $268.00 each at Walmart on clearance. Sold the bottom one for more than I paid for both! Kept the top one. It had better wood.
 
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The magazine tube is not locked into the receiver as is the threaded barrel. But as the barrel heats and expands the still cold magazine tube does not. It is between the forearm stock end cap and the muzzle end tenon or between the two barrel clamps that tension, for lack of a better word at the moment, occurs. It is possible to perhaps improve that fit to minimize it but as has been said, this is the nature of these rifles with barrel bands, heavy tube magazines and two piece stocks. If the game is not pretty dead by three or four shots, well, we need a bigger gun, or better shooting, can mull that over while running!

Back aways I had a 336 XLR, long barrel and short magazine tube. I had noted at the time without thinking much about it that the POI did not drift much as the barrel heated up. I wonder if that is a side benefit of short mag tubes? I have also noted that my 18.5 inch barrels SBLs seem to remain more stable for a little longer than my 20 and 22 inch longer barrel 336 rifles.

3C
 
Hello all
Thank you for the help. I went to the range and wanted to report back for anyone else out tjere with the same issue.
I shot 5 shot groups and waited for barrel to cool, nice clean 1" groups! So it was the barrel heating causing groups to spread.

Also, i tried a new load, worked up to 39.7 grains of H4198 behind 300g XTP (1900fps) (hornady manual) but had pressure signs, clear cratering and flattened primers

Tried H4895 (AR2206H) 50grains (manual says over 2000fps didnt chrony) at well below 40k pressure, beautiful group 0.8" consistently. (ADI manual)

But yea guys problem solved just had to wait between shots. Thanks alot!
 
JPSauer said:
Hello all
Thank you for the help. I went to the range and wanted to report back for anyone else out tjere with the same issue.
I shot 5 shot groups and waited for barrel to cool, nice clean 1" groups! So it was the barrel heating causing groups to spread.

Also, i tried a new load, worked up to 39.7 grains of H4198 behind 300g XTP (1900fps) (hornady manual) but had pressure signs, clear cratering and flattened primers

Tried H4895 (AR2206H) 50grains (manual says over 2000fps didnt chrony) at well below 40k pressure, beautiful group 0.8" consistently. (ADI manual)

But yea guys problem solved just had to wait between shots. Thanks alot!
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Congrats. You've found that Lever-actions can be accurate.
Those 444s got some thump to them.
 
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