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vis-à-vis

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When does the dealer have to send the form 4473 to the ATF? After every sale? It is my understanding that the dealer gets to keep the 4473 unless someone buys more than 3 guns at a time. Otherwise he maintains the forms to provide the 4473s to the ATF during a routine inspection. And aftyer he closes shop he has to mail any 4473 that isn't 20 years old or more.
 
Here's what the much maligned ATF FAQ has to say:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#c6

(C6) Must a licensed importer’s, manufacturer’s, or dealer’s records be surrendered to ATF if the licensee discontinues business?

If the business is being discontinued completely, the licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer is required, within 30 days, to forward the business records to the following address:

BUREAU OF ATF
ATF OUT-OF-BUSINESS RECORDS CENTER
244 NEEDY ROAD
MARTINSBURG, WV 24501​

Failure to surrender required records is a felony and could result in the licensee being fined up to $250,000, imprisoned up to 5 years, or both. A licensee discontinuing business also must notify the Federal Firearms Licensing Center within 30 days.

If someone is taking over the business, the original licensee should underline the final entry in each bound book, note the date of transfer, and forward all records and forms to the successor (who must apply for and receive his or her own license before lawfully engaging in business) or forward the records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Records Center. If the successor licensee receives records and forms from the original licensee, the successor licensee may choose to forward these records and forms to the ATF Out-of-Business Record Center.

[18 U. S. C. 923(g)(4), 22 CFR 478.57, 27 CFR 478.127]



(C7) What records am I required to forward to ATF upon discontinuance of my business?

The records consist of the licensee's bound acquisition/disposition (A/D) records, ATF Forms 4473, ATF Forms 3310.4 (Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers), ATF Forms 3310.11 (Federal Firearms Licensee Theft/Loss Report), records of transactions in semiautomatic assault weapons, records of importation (ATF Forms 6 and 6A), and law enforcement certification letters. If the licensee was granted a variance to use a computerized record-keeping system, the licensee is required to provide a complete printout of the entire A/D records.

[27 CFR 478.127]
Click to expand...
 
Unless the ATF has their agents come to the FFL and perform an inspection (I don't think they can take copies of 4473s on routine inspections), or are investigating a crime.
 
We don't send the ATF the 4473s. At all. If you buy more than 1 handgun in 1 transaction, we have to fill out a multiple handgun report, which gets faxed to the LE agencies in the area (PD and Sheriff).

The 4473s don't leave the premises. It is my understanding that it is illegal for the ATF (or any other LE agency) to take them out of the premises. If they are doing an investigation, AFAIK, they have to come here to get the info.

The only time they could get the 4473s is if somebody goes completely out of business and sends them to the ATF. Although, I have heard before that if someone goes out of business, then they can leave their records to another business/person that has an FFL.

Hopefully somebody that knows more about this will chime in and straighten us all out.

Wes
 
What happens if someone has a gun transferred to them but their ID is expired? Can a dealer still transfer the gun or is that illegal? If illegal, illegal for whom?
 
vis-à-vis, if you mean ID as in driver's license, it's my understanding that dealers cannot legally transfer a firearm to anybody with a less-than-current ID. My boyfriend had a valid DL but it had an old address - in order for one of his transactions to be fully legal, he had to go get an updated DL.

I believe the law is such, at least in Idaho, that liability falls on the ID holder to ensure their info is up-to-date, since a FFL has no way of verifying that. However, it probably falls on a FFL to verify that the ID isn't expired, since that's easy to check.

IANAL, though. :)
 
A dealer that I bought several guns from over the years fell on hard times. He got behind on is rent and the landlord locked him out. My friend did his sums and figured he was better to walk away than try to ransom what little inventory he had left.

After the landlord had an auction, he cleaned out the space and hauled it to the dump. My friend wrote a letter to the ATF surrendering his license and advising them of the situation. Been twenty years now and he has never heard back from them.
 
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