.45-70 ... Is it ok to neck size only for Marlin 1895?

[MCMXI]

I'm about to place an order for some reloading dies and noticed that Redding offers full-length and neck sizer dies for the .45-70. I neck size for .308, .300 WM and .300 WSM rifles but those are bolt guns. I'm going to buy a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 soon and so have no experience with that caliber or rifle. I'd really appreciate it if someone knows for sure that neck sizing only is good/bad in this case. Actually, I was surprised to see a neck sizing die offered in .45-70 since it's a straight-walled case ... right?

Thanks for any help.

 

[rcmodel]

The single-shot guys can neck-size and get away with it.

For a lever-gun, you will want to full-length size to insure proper functioning.

A lever-action has very little camming power to force a case in the chamber that doesn't want to go.

BTW: The 45-70 is not a straight case.
It has .025" taper from front to back.

rcmodel

 

[MCMXI]

rcmodel, thanks for the quick response. I was doubtful about neck sizing for a Marlin. I'll order the full-length die then. Thanks also for the explanation on the case dimensions ... DUH ... I should have looked at the drawing in my reloading manual!! Anyway, a taper from .505" to .480" over 2.105" doesn't seem like much at all. I don't have any .45-70 cases yet so I don't know if that taper would be obvious by inspection.

Thanks.

 

[ReloaderFred]

+1 for full length resizing. You'll need it for the 1895 Marlin, both for feeding and for good neck tension under recoil in the magazine tube.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[MCMXI]

Fred,
Thanks for the confirmation ... now I KNOW it's official!! I ordered Redding full-size, expander and competition seater dies along with a Lee roll crimp die and 200 cases. Now all I need is a rifle or two in .45-70 but I'm working on that.

 

[Asherdan]

I started off reloading for the 1895 with a Lee Loader. So yeah, my first several hundred reloads were neck sized only. I only load for one 45/70 rifle so I continue to neck size after the first firing with good success. Chamber fit, feed and neck tension have been fine.

Loading .459/.460 cast, neck sizing a couple thousandths under diameter when the same bullet is seated then belling just enough to start the bullet also works the case necks much less and leads to extended brass life. If you're worried about bullet setback take care with your crimp.

My experience says you can do it and produce safe, reliable and accurate cartridges.

The real question is: do you need to?

With your chosen dies you should produce fine cartridges. Try neck sizing later after you wring out all the other load building stuff that comes with a new cartridge and have some pet loads.

 

[MCMXI]

With your chosen dies you should produce fine cartridges. Try neck sizing later after you wring out all the other load building stuff that comes with a new cartridge and have some pet loads.

Asherdan, I have no experience with the .45-70 cartridge or with the Marlin 1895 rifle. I do neck-size for three bolt guns but from what I've read, the accuracy of the 1895 in .45-70 may not warrant neck-sizing. On a rifle capable of sub MOA accuracy I absolutely believe that neck-sizing is the way to go, but from what I've read, the 1895 isn't capable of 1" groups at 100 yards (or even 2" groups) so I'd be better off loading for reliable feeding and chambering rather than hoping for a tack driver. That said, a neck sizing die is cheap enough, so as you mentioned, I could try it once I've worked up some good loads. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Asherdan]

...but from what I've read, the 1895 isn't capable of 1" groups at 100 yards (or even 2" groups)...

I think after you develop your own loads and learn to work with it you'll be pleasantly surprised then. Factory or aperture sights are going to limit your precision much more than the 1895 design.

 

[MCMXI]

I think after you develop your own loads and learn to work with it you'll be pleasantly surprised then.

That'll be just fine with me!

 

[Harve Curry]

Hmmm, I don't know about the 1895, but have a 1881 Marlin 45-70 that shoots smokeless loads into 1 1/2" at 100 yards with iron sights.

I full length resize, didn't know about the neck size dies. I think you should try some neck sized and full lenght sized frpm a benchrest on paper. See what it functions like and groups like.

Any tube magazine, two piece stock rifle has pressure areas, interference, that other design rifles don't have. High intensity loads, higher pressure loads will be effected by these pressure points and show up in the accuracy on paper. Lower pressure, lower velocity will generally be more accurate.
There are people out there who've studied it and found ways to tune/relieve the Marlin and Winchester lever actions for accuracy. I would start at Leveractions.com or the Marlin website that I cannot remember at this moment.

 

[ReloaderFred]

The site you were looking for is: http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php

There is a lot of good information there.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[texfed]

I have the same rifle and I full lenght size....You have to keep in mind your not loading for a trapdoor! With modern working pressures, you will get more expansion than for the 'old ' rifle loads.
I started out with a lot of new Winchester brass and loaded around 300 rds. Upon using the ammo, I do the full drill, tumble,full size, ect.....never had a lick of trouble from the 1895!

 

[streakr]

I also vote for the full length sizing.

I would also suggest that you run the completed round through the sizing die again after removing the decapper pin, even if you crimp.

I actually have an extra sizing die for this purpose to smooth the contour of these very long rounds which go into a Rolling Block, a Trapdoor and an 1895. This also works for 38-55 and 32-40.

s

 

[Birdhunter1]

1858 make sure and use a sizing lube or you'll be sorry, I have used Lee heavy duty sizing lube but I prefer Imperial case sizing wax.

 

[MCMXI]

1858 make sure and use a sizing lube or you'll be sorry

I always use case lube if the sizing die isn't carbide. I neck size for my bolt guns so no lube is needed there. I'll be using lube on the .45-70 for sure. Thanks.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Just don't use too much lube, or you'll dimple those long, thin cases.... They dimple pretty easy.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[WyrTwister]

Are you still using the lee Loader to neck size or some other die ? What other die ?

God bless
Wyr

 

[rcmodel]

I would also suggest that you run the completed round through the sizing die again after removing the decapper pin, even if you crimp.

Thats bad advice.

If you size a loaded round, the bullet will almost certainly be squeezed down below bore size.

During sizing the case is made smaller then the bullet.
Then the expander is used to expand the case back up to just below bullet diameter.

If you run the loaded round back in the sizing die, somethings gotta give, and in this case, it will have to be the bullet diameter.

rcmodel

 

[ReloaderFred]

+1 to rcmodel's advice. It's never good policy to run a loaded round back into the sizing die for the reasons stated.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[MCMXI]

Are you still using the lee Loader to neck size or some other die ? What other die ?

God bless
Wyr

Wyr, I haven't started reloading for the .45-70 yet. I do have Redding dies that I'll be using to full-size the cases, expand the neck and seat the bullet but I'll be using a Lee die for the roll crimp. I have 200 cases and powder but I'm waiting on the bullets that I ordered and will start reloading when I get back from Europe at the beginning of November.