.45-70, Lyman loads and Dacron wads?

[bunnielab]

I have traded into a Marlin Guide Gun and want to begin reloading for it. I have the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and after looking at the data I have few questions.

1)After almost every load listed in the Lever Action section there is a notation that states "Designates the use of a 1/2gr. Dacron wad over the powder. What purpose does this serve and where to I get this stuff?

2)They list data for Unique but not Universal. I am used to seeing them both listed as in pistols they seem to give similar vel. at the same loads. Does anyone publish .45-70 loads for Universal?

3) I am intrigued by the listings for 2400. Does anyone have any exp. with them? I mainly load .357mag now and would love to be able to use the powders I use for that (Universal, TrailBoss, and 2400) for my GG as well.

4) In the "Modern Rifles" section there are listed Duplex loads, ie. smokeless and black powder mixed loads. I was allways told that mixing powders was a huge no-no. What is the story behind these loads?

5) Unrelated to the Lyman book, can anyone suggest a good sourse for 300-400g "plinking" .458 bullets? Im not looking to do anything but practice with them so Im not picky about the specifics I just want an idea what a good price per 100 would be and where to get them.

Thanks.

 

[Sport45]

Can't help with the reload data, but here are a few cast rifle bullet suppliers. (I assume you meant .458"?)

Moyers Cast Bullets

Gardners Cache

Magnus Bullets

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't load .45-70 and cannot furnish recipes. Which leaves me to clarify No 1 and no 4.

The dacron wad is meant to keep the powder down on the primer. Few smokeless loads come close to filling the black powder .45-70 case and the wad is meant to improve ignition. If not properly placed, it can ring-bulge the chamber. Lyman is about the only general manual recommending it; most experienced loaders consider it an advanced technique and either avoid it or are very careful with it.

Duplex loads are NOT mixed black and smokeless powders. The smokeless is loaded first, down on the primer, then the black is dropped and compressed either with a compression die or at least by seating the bullet firmly down on the powder. The intent is to prevent mixing of the powders. The smokeless ignites first and ignites the black very thoroughly, in order to improve combustion of the black and reduce the accumulation of fouling. Kind of a specialty application. I don't do it because it is not allowed in the BPCR shooting I do.

 

[Randy1911]

I used to load 45-70 Gov't and my favorite load was 35.0 grs. of IMR3031 and a 400 gr. lead bullet. Fairly accurate out to 300 yards. The purpose of the filler is hold the powder in the base of the case. That way you get better ignition of the powder.I couldn't find any data for the powder you have.

 

[buttrap]

I would say quit messing around with the pistol powder loads and go to somthing like 3031 or another good IMR rifle powder for the lead loads. The one I really liked was 46 grains of 3031 and the 405 grain carbine slug cast with wheel weight lead.

 

[NuJudge]

There are people who use a tuft of Dacron or Kapok to hold the powder against the case's flash hole. This may increase ignition efficiency. The Dacron or Kapok may also act as a secondary projectile, giving you a ring in your chamber approximately where the base of the bullet is.

If you really want to try it, you can get dacron from an old pillow, or in batting form from a fabric store (used for making quilts).

I suggest you leave it alone. Alliant 2400 in moderate charges needs no Dacron, Unique also. You can load the Marlin up to whatever your shoulder will take, but there are many bullets it will not feed. Look for ones that approximate the RCBS designs and you will do fine.

 

[redneck2]

I use 400 gr Speer FP's over Varget. This is listed in the Lyman book in the "Marlin" load section. Stout but not overly punishing. I did install a Pachmayr Decelerator pad.

Your rifling may or may not work with cast bullets.

 

[bunnielab]

One of reasons for my interest in using pistol powders comes from the difficulty in finding most rifle powders these days. I was actually laughed at the other day when I asked for some Varget at a store.

 

[moooose102]

i have loaded a moderate amount of reduced loads in several calibers, including my 45/70 guide gun. i do not use filler (wads) in any of it. i think it is totally unecessary, and just one more thing to go wrong. i have never had any ignition problems either. that is just my opinion, but as far as i am concerned, it is what i go by.

 

[jcjacobvt]

Also use rifle mag primers. The larger cases of the 45-70 needs a mag primer to insure complete powder ignition.

 

[Gewehr98]

Reduced loads can be scary if not done correctly.

I've noticed with really reduced loads, you may want to tip the muzzle up for a second to cover the primer with powder. You'll notice variations in shot placement with powder against primer vs. powder against bullet. With those reduced loads, there's also a danger of a double charge fitting under the bullet, so be damned careful. Too weak a load, and you run the risk of getting a bullet stuck in the bore, especially if you have a 30" or longer barrel.

As Jim noted, the Dacron wad technique was introduced to keep the powder charge against the primer. It is an advanced technique, and I've avoided it, mainly because I'm not sure what a foreign substance does to internal ballistics, and I'm not married to just one pistol powder for all my different reloading calibers.

I have, however, gone to a "bulkier" smokeless powder in my lightweight cast bullet .45-70 loads for my Marlin 1895 and Ruger #1S. I do this to prevent the undesirable effect of powder shift uncovering the primer. Alliant 2400 is one powder I've had good results with, Accurate XMP-5744 is another.

Duplex smokeless/BP loads are also an advanced technique that really shouldn't be attempted unless you seriously study the practice and follow the steps perfectly. The two powders are NOT mixed, they are layered, with the smokeless against the primer for a hotter ignition of the main BP charge. I run 5.0gr smokeless under 65.0gr Goex Cartridge in my 32" Sharps Business Rifle, which lets me shoot all day without blow-tubing or wiping the bore, yet still delivers the excellent accuracy, smoke, and low recoil of BP. One still has to clean the same as running straight BP, and the BPCR folks decided not too long ago that one couldn't duplex for their matches. I still shoot duplex for my own long-range fun, but switch to straight BP loads for BPCR Silhouette competition.

Many of us .45-70 shooters have drifted away from the Large Rifle Magnum Rifle primers recommended from days gone by. The powder column really isn't that hard to light off, and I've even seen Large Pistol primers used at competitions, some with a thin layer of paper between the primer flash hole and the main BP charge...

I just run either Winchester Large Rifle, or CCI Benchrest, in my "serious" .45-70 loads, same as I do for my smokeless .45-70 loads.

 

[lead-inspector]

45-70 Plinking Loads

Hodgdon lists Trailboss 14.0 gr with 300 gr lead @ 1199 fps to 16.5 gr with 300 gr. lead @ 1285.

I have loaded 300 gr lead with Unique but cannot find any published loads for it (on the Alliant site) now. It appears you already have Trailboss (but not Unique) the Trailboss will work well for a light plinking load.

Steve

 

[bunnielab]

I was planing on starting out with Trailboss for my pinking loads but was curious about 2400 as I already have it on hand.

Given the difficultly of finding rifle powders these days I was pleasantly surprised to fine so many pistol powders usefull for .45-70.

 

[fireman 9731]

I say switch to a different power... I like IMR 4198, IMR 3031, and Varget. The lighter loads in these powders are easy on the shoulder and should work fine.

 

[bunnielab]

If you could direct me to a place to buy Varget I would be most thankful.

I am trying to work up some loads with components that are readily available. But hell, I cant even find Lee .45-70 dies in stock anywhere yet. I think I might just buy a slingshot and see if that will tide me over until people come to their senses.