.45 acp Federal Brass whats the deal???

[Master Blaster]

For years I have been loading Remmington, speer, winchester S&B PMC and Federal brass in .45 acp with no problems. The last batch of brass I picked up contained a number of federal cases. For some reason when I load this federal brass the rounds come out out of spec, meaning they will not go into a case gauge, or fit my revolver cylinder all the way. When I check the brass after resizing it drops in the case gauge easily. After seating and crimping the bullet, about half of the federal rounds will not go in the case gauge. The rounds seem to be slightly bulged at the base. AlL the other brass being loaded with the same bullets at the same time, same die settings are just fine. I have measured the brass after resizing and its all within spec.
I have now started throwing out the federal brass. Has anyone noticed this problem???? I have even tried resetting the crimp die but it makes no difference.

ANy ideas as to why this is happening did I just get a bad batch of brass??

BTW this is once fired range brass from a local commercial range.

Thanks

 

[Canuck-IL]

Boy, this sounds weird...just want to understand the problem.

You're saying that apparently the pressure of seating the bullet is causing the correctly re-sized and gauge checked brass to bulge directly above the extractor groove, right?

Do you have before & after measurements at the case base and on the neck at about the depth of the bullet base and at the leading edge of the case?

/Bryan

 

[Master Blaster]

I did all the measurements and discovered that the base about !/4" above the extractor groove is about .477 IIRC and it should be .474. cases are fine after resizing at .473.474.

My first thought was that they were too long but they were no longer than my other brass, so its not that they needed to be trimmed, which was my first thought.

I sure soon someone will suggest a Lee factory crimp die, but I'd rather not force the case, because there is some other problem causing this phenomenon.

 

[Ol` Joe]

This is why I have never liked range brass, you don`t know its history.

The Federal stuff maybe was fired in a Glock with its unsupported rear chamber area. The die doesn`t size down the case far enough to squeeze this back down to where it will fit your pistol. I`d toss it if it is just a few pieces.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Blaster,

This might sound weird but, measure the wall thickness of the Federal brass near the top of the case. I suspect that it is thicker than the other cases that are not having this problem. It'll require more force to seat a bullet in a case with a thicker wall, because after resizing it has a smaller ID. This could be causing the bottom to bulge slightly. I had this happen to me. but not with Federal brass (I can't recall now which brand it was, maybe Independence).

If this is the case (no pun intended) you should either sort out the Federal stuff, or use a Lee FCD to size after insertion. I used the FCD and had no problems, but as always, YRMV.

Good luck.

 

[Jim Watson]

Federal brass runs to thick walls. I separate it out and save it for loading 185 gr JHP where the extra press fit will improve bullet pull. Maybe that is your trouble.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Realizing your comment about Lee FCD, Master Blaster, but you might reconsider as the FCD also resizes the case to insure it will fit in chambers. It should remove that danged bulge...You can adjust the crimp to anything you want...

 

[WayneConrad]

I've had exactly this problem loading 9mm.

My RCBS carbide die has a large radius on the carbide insert, and the carbide insert sits a few thousands deeper inside the die than it should. These faults cause the die to not size the case as close to the base as it should.

I switched to the Lee carbide sizing die, which sizes closer to the base, and all is well. I no longer get cases that are in spec after sizing and out of spec after seating and crimping.

What does your sizing die look like? And is it screwed in as close to the shell holder as you can get it?

 

[R.H. Lee]

The Federal stuff maybe was fired in a Glock with its unsupported rear chamber area.

Or possibly a 1911 with its even greater 'unsupported rear chamber area'.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Hummm...Mr. Lee. I have never heard that the Colt .45 ACP had an unsupported area or that it had a problem with ballooned cases. I have a series 80 and have not had a problem with ballooned cases as I have seen with glocks. No one ever complains of that problem for the Colt either. Other then you photo, could try to explain this???

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Some 1911s dont have any more chamber support than Glocks, or so I have been told by people who are supposed to know.

 

[The Bushmaster]

None the less...I have had no problem like Glocks have nor have I ever heard of any until now. Both my stock barrel and my Wilson SS barrel have not deformed any brass as I've seen at the range from glocks...

 

[R.H. Lee]

Is there any objective evidence that Glock chambers are any more 'unsupported' than any other pistol? Something like measurement, or even side by side observation by comparison? If there is, I'd like to see it.

Or is the 'unsupported Glock chamber' myth just a baseless repetition of gunlore? Look at the photo. Does it look like the Glock 21 chamber provides any less 'support' than the Series 70 Colt chamber?

Is the Federal brass bulged all the way around at the base or only on one side?

 

[rchernandez]

The Bushmaster Hummm...Mr. Lee. I have never heard that the Colt .45 ACP had an unsupported area or that it had a problem with ballooned cases. I have a series 80 and have not had a problem with ballooned cases as I have seen with glocks. No one ever complains of that problem for the Colt either. Other then you photo, could try to explain this???

Kimber! It appears some earlier ramp/chambers were too agressively made "reliable"

 

[Master Blaster]

Every 1911 pistol barrel I have ever seen has an area that is unsupported above the casehead. Usually its about twice the size of the unsupported area on a Glock barrel. The case head blowouts seen in .40 caliber glocks also known as kabooms are as a result of the extremely high pressure generated by a .40 S&W round when you have bullet setback or even a small overcharge of powder in a .40 S&W round. You see there is no free space in the case and a small variation like bullet setback can double or tripple the pressure. If you doubt this take one apart sometime (180 grain) and see how much space the bullet takes up, its sitting right on the powder charge, which is usually small and a fast powder at that.

The resulting blowout leaves a halfmoon shaped hole in the brass where the feedramp does not support a small part of the case This blowout is what led to the unsupported chamber glock story.

I own a few pistols and the barrels on my Glocks have just as much support as any other pistol, the least supported loosest chamber on any pistol I own is on a SIG p220!!!!

The SIG does not swell the brass. I think that the swelled brass story is a myth as well because I have resised a few thousand remmington etc cases that were fired in a glock, and there is no bulge, resizing is normal on these cases.

Also if you read my post I said that the cases drop in the case gauge easily after they are resized so being fired in a Glock is not the problem.

The thickness could be the answer, I never noticed the problem till recently though so its probably just a bad batch of brass. My 1911s handle the out of spec rounds fine, but my revolvers have a real problem with them.

Thanks for your input.

 

[shark40sw]

I don't know about the whole unsupported barrel being a myth, I do know that only the .40 sw cases that come out of my 22 with it's factory barrel do exactly the same thing. Not with the first reload sometimes but eventually they all get that slight bulge in the base that makes resizing impossible and the brass worthless for reloading. It doesn't happen in my 23 (after factory barrel) or any other autoloader I have, no matter what the caliber.
And I do shoot with someone who has a Glock in 10mm that has had the same problem exactly. Solution was to replace the barrel with a kkm match barrel and hasn't had a single case do that again since. So if it's such a myth, and between us we own, load for, and regularly shoot somewhere in the area of 12 different handguns, then why is it only these models that have this problem.

 

[BluesBear]

A picture's worth a thousand words

Since this thread has gone completely off topic from Federal .45ACP brass to chamber support allegations, I'll post the following photo that another THR member has already posted of his own research into the matter.